Set up for Justin's Interview

Rhett 0:11

Hey everyone , welcome to Armchair Authentic , a podcast with Rhett and Justin designed to bring you real conversations about real life with real people . And today I am really excited because we're jumping into a conversation here in a few minutes that I had with Justin a few weeks ago and it was a conversation that kind of turned into a little bit of interview about your life , Justin . And before we get to it , do you have any thoughts that you want to add ?

Justin 0:37

Yeah , I mean we talked about our podcast being something that not only do we dialogue back and forth , but we get interviews and we get to know people . I love to hear stories and we thought what better way than to start it getting to hear from each other . And we're starting this with me , and I found it really challenging because I had to take the past 30 years of being surrendered to Christ , but really even 38 years of our friendship , and some of the questions that you were asking me . It was like having to take a deep dive and I found it fascinating actually to listen back to and mean you have been prepping this , so I'm really excited about just taking our time and getting this out there , and what I'm excited about after is I get to turn the tables on you and get to hear some of your stories .

Justin 1:22

So , yeah , I think this is really setting everything up well , getting to know us a little bit more , but I think , more than anything , we hope that it turns into something that you can look at your own life .

Rhett 1:32

We're kind of taking the plane from a 35,000 foot view a little bit more toward a 15,000 foot view , and this is going to be ongoing through all our conversations , even not just with you and I , but even with our guest that we bring on and kind of interview and kind of just make it a part of our life . So we're just trying to do our best to just be vulnerable , authentic , real with our journey , and I had a great time just getting a chance to even to listen to some of the things that you were sharing and dive in and kind of learning some new things that I didn't even really recognize or know completely until we kind of got into this . So it's going to be a lot of fun . So , however , you found us , we're really excited that you're long for the journey . So get ready , buckle up , buttercup here we go .

Rhett 2:12

You know , this is part one of an interview conversation I had with my best friend for 38 years .

Justin's Primary Ministry Role

Justin 2:18

My primary ministry is on staff at Church of the Highlands and what my role is is to oversee our pastoral care , and we're a really large church . So there's many , many , many campuses . I hate to say a number because it's always changing , but at this time it's kind of in that 25 campus number and really my responsibility is making sure that our staff have the tools and resources they need , as they're really taking care of their specific congregation at the different campuses and really also a function of our staff . People need a safe place , right .

Justin 2:59

People need a place to just be able to open up and hang out and just come and really just talk , and so I find that my space creates a great living room setting for something like that . I've been at Church of the Highlands for me and my wife , I mean since it started back in February of 2001 .

Rhett 3:22

Okay , wow .

Justin 3:23

Yeah , and so I mean we've given so much of our life out of a passion for it's the local church that we love .

Rhett 3:31

If I'm listening , I'm like how in the world do you get to that ? Because was that ? Oh man , I , you know , got in good on the beginning and of course you're doing that now because I mean , like , what was the process ? That's a process .

Rhett 3:41

I don't start out there and jump into pastoral care . You know such an organization and let's be real like it's a it's God is unique thumbprint on every church and it cannot speak from the perspective of I've been on . I've been on staff at Church of the Highlands . Some people know this , some people don't , but from 2010 , we moved and we came here and then , you know , through part-time staff to full-time staff , you know that was a part of my life , in my journey , so I've been a part of on staff there and seen a part of your journey , and then God called me to other things , which is a part of my story .

Rhett 4:14

We're not interviewing me here , but I am letting people know that I've been a part of this organization . So that's right and and it's very unique . It's a unique thumbprint and it should be . Every church should be absolutely beautiful and look completely different than each other , right , and I love that . So , but for the unique thumbprint that is Highlands , and the unique thumbprint on your life and your wife's life and your kids and all of that , like , how ,

What I Would Tell My Younger Self

Rhett 4:36

how did you get to the place where you're doing what you're doing now ? And I know that's a long back .

Rhett 4:40

You could start deep 10 years ago , or however , but like if you were to unveil it and unwrap it by layer backwards like what , what ? What did that look like for you ?

Justin 4:49

you know , keeping up with what we were saying earlier and I hope you can , the listener can take knowing what I'm gonna say . There's so much depth that we're gonna get into over the course of episodes that are gonna go hopefully for a long time . But if I could go back until like younger Justin something , yeah , I would go to him and say hey , because I know how I felt as a kid . I know that I felt less than I really did . I didn't feel like I was very knowledgeable in things and and that gets into episode one , and we talked about our house , broken life , really growing up , broken family , latch key kids , both of us . I would go to young Justin and say , hey , you just swung that bat and you missed it . Stop just running around swinging a bat , acting like you meant to miss that , like it's okay , try it again and swing the bat and even if you miss it , try it again because you're getting better . It was like me coaching my youngest son last night at Topgolf .

Justin 5:50

Okay , he couldn't hit the ball for anything , but after an hour yeah he started making contact and I love that he didn't give up and become too cool for school , like . I would have been , and what I would tell people listening is give yourself that grace to develop into something and don't try to be the final product , because you'll end up missing the beautiful process that God has for you that's good , but be able to step in to your situation fully and uniquely who you are , and grow according to the way .

Justin 6:25

But it's so important to be embracing yourself along the way , that is my story read , because

Stepping Out Into The Unknown

Justin 6:32

really what even got me there is we had just stepped out of a church that we were the poster children for , yeah , for the first seven years of my surrendered life to Christ , where I cut my teeth on ministry and we just knew we were supposed to go and we knew we were supposed to land in a local church .

Justin 6:50

I remember kind of stepping out and once I stepped out I started realizing I guess once you let turn the noise down , wow , I'm dealing with some bitterness and frustration what in the world is this ? Well , it's because I finally stopped after seven years , yeah , to just step into something new and give myself a new space , and I actually remember , as you stepped out of a comfort zone , of a home church that you and I grew up in together , gave hearts to Christ yes began to take next steps in yes and it was like , we know , we were very comfortable within that environment and there was really no reason for us to take a step out .

Rhett 7:27

You know , in my mind , no , I mean not knowing what we didn't know , we didn't know , we didn't , we only knew what we knew , right , and so we were very comfortable . We're in a very place where we still loved and we're in great friendship with the pastor there today but you felt in God even in that season of comfort .

Justin 7:41

Called you out yeah took a step and it was the place that , if you would have asked us before , yeah , I was going to be spending my life there yeah my dream yeah once again .

Justin 7:51

I was a volunteer for seven years . My dream was to be full-time there and all of a sudden we're just feeling our spirit like we're supposed to go . And I know this might sound foreign to some people , because I remember I used to actually , when I would teach or do something , I would tell people you don't go unless you've been called into something . And I realized in that moment it just doesn't always work that way yeah you get called out sometimes and there's a faith step of here's the directive .

Justin 8:21

I knew , I knew I'm not gonna step out and not have a place . I knew that we're stepping out and we , the local church to us is everything we're going to find a local church . We had just gotten married , didn't know what we were doing and it was quite the experience .

Justin 8:36

But once we stepped out , yeah , beautiful place we came from yeah , I mean like you said we're gonna go we're gonna go have some lunch let's go with our , our former pastor , and I love it , so I love that relationships still thrive . When we stepped into this new season , there was some of this undelt toxicity , bitterness , that I hadn't dealt with within myself , I guess , because we were always on a platform or a stage . You never had a moment to come down , and when I finally did , I realized , man , I'm kind of frustrated . That's really good and .

Jaded And Frustrated

Justin 9:08

I remember me and you always went and performed concerts , led worship , whatever it is yeah and I would lead worship for this guy and we'd have these great experiences together . Well , it just so happened that he knew the pastor who was going to be moving to Birmingham to plan a church , Chris Hodges . And it's funny because in the year of 2000 , in the fall , I get a call from this guy because he knew I had music , he knew I had influence in the music community .

Justin 9:36

He said hey , this guy's moving to Birmingham . Would you like to be a part of helping him get the like the music stuff up ?

Rhett 9:45

and launch , and you had already taken the step of transition from that local church we were in . Godford , right . So this was you were in the process of finding a , the next home , if you will , for the next season of your life and your wife's life . Yes , you know , not at that time , right , just being in summer , yeah .

Justin 10:04

And yeah . So you would have thought , yeah , you would have thought this is the most teed up moment , wow .

Rhett 10:09

Look at God .

Justin 10:10

Yeah , and he asked me , and because I'm dealing with what I'm dealing with , I remember getting a call from him and I said , hey , man , not interested at all From Chris . Well , no , it was it was from a guy named Darren .

Rhett 10:25

I didn't .

Justin 10:25

I didn't know . Okay , you know I call him PC . I didn't know PC . Then I knew this guy named Darren and Darren called and asked me and I just remember thinking I know . I said I'll try to help you find some people , but I don't have a desire to do that Because I realized I'm not ready to jump back in . And what's so cool about that ? God's just so gracious . We visited every church .

Justin 10:48

I mean I'm probably you know full disclosure , armchair , authentic , right . Yeah , I'm walking into all these local churches a bit jaded . I mean they would tell us to do a meet and greet and my spirit was just like , don't tell me what to do , like what is , and I found myself picking apart things . The good part of this was I was getting to see and it's all imperfect , but I was getting to see a bit of the plastic that we do operate in and and how hard it can be to come in and realize that we're just we're real people and the guy on the stage is a real person . I hadn't got to really experience a whole slate of that on my different experiences .

Rhett 11:32

So let's you know , so much to unpack . We're here because I'm asked . You know , we talked about what you're doing now pastoral care , church of the Highlands , one of the largest churches in America right , and you have the opportunity to do that , and what we're doing is saying , okay , hey , what is giving you the moral authority to even be able to speak on leadership and stuff ? And we're peeling back the layers and we're going back to the Justin that grew up in a home church .

Rhett 11:56

God did a lot of work in his life , got married and then , not knowing what was next , god calling you into a new season . And what's interesting to me , that's standing out in this and we've talked a lot , but I don't think we've ever dialed into this is that you took a step out of comfort into an uncomfortable situation , knowing that God is calling you to a season of maybe desert place , trying to . You know , out of your comfort zone . You're not on the platform anymore , but you're going , you're experiencing these different churches , but God's doing a work in you in the desert place , if in this season of your life , right .

Rhett 12:27

I mean you know there are obviously , looking back , other deserts and storms that are different , that layer at different levels , but for this moment , in this season of life , this was a big deal for you and you're in your wife and you're trying to find home . What I'm hearing you say is God began to do like a purification of a gold process in you . As the heat turns up , these impurities rise so he can skim it off to make you not make you , but to allow you the opportunity to grow and develop and become a stronger leader , husband , father eventually , and and so I'm hearing these the bitterness , the some of the toxicity . None of that existed . You know , like you didn't know , it was there really right in the comfort zone , but it was in the uncomfortable position where those things started to rise and bubble up and then you began to go okay , I'm recognizing things in me , where did this come from ?

Rhett 13:13

And you begin to work those things out .

Justin 13:14

obviously you know with me in that season , what I , what I have noticed in my life , and I think it's true . I think you look at the Bible . It would back all this up . But

The Launch of Church of the Highlands

Justin 13:25

isolation is one of the biggest weapons that the enemy will use against you and really the only remedy for that it's in two parts . It's God , obviously . That just sounds so like hey , that's just the answer , but God just doesn't do it . Through him , he also put people in our life .

Rhett 13:43

Yeah .

Justin 13:43

And that's how these healing moments of truly being known and to know happen . And so what happened for me ? He would send Chris Hodges into my life , and here's how that happened . I was managing a Christian bookstore at the time and so many people would come in and say , oh , there's a new church that we hear that's come in and we should come check it out with this .

Rhett 14:06

By the way , this is pre social media , pre Facebook , pre Instagram , pre like the word of mouth . Yeah , everything was word of mouth . So this is how you found out , it was like oh , this is happening , this is happening you found through word of mouth , through invitation mailers kind of thing it was .

Justin 14:19

it was all about that and then and then you know , it was like yeah , you know , I humor them . And then one time Darren actually called me back and he said hey , listen , can I sing you something ? And ? It was an invitation to like a steak dinner that PC was going to do and can I talk about for a second you .

Rhett 14:35

just all of that's important , but , as I was mentioning it pre all of this , it was also pre before we had ever even heard of a new church starting . The only churches that I knew growing up that started fresh or new were from church splits .

Rhett 14:48

Yes , it was something didn't happen or whatever and we'd always kind of joke around . You could tell the reason the church split by their name , yeah , and I'm not witty enough to remember these , but it was like , you know , Tata , Malita assembly . Yeah , like , oh , okay , there you go . You know the reason they left that church because of some disgruntled . It will just go start our own church . Yeah , and that was the only thing that I could speak for myself . Yeah , A kid in Birmingham , Alabama . You know 80s , 90s , it was just the churches on our side of town were all churches that came from a split and it was never , anything of like .

Rhett 15:22

Somebody knew moving into town , got a love for Jesus and just wanted to offer something you know , just in a new , fresh , different way To me . If I'm dialing that in , that's like what ? Okay , what ?

Justin 15:32

Oh , that's great perspective because that's normal language for us now . But you're right , it was different . It was so different , I wasn't used to it .

Rhett 15:39

Yeah .

Justin 15:39

And what was funny about that is we were going to go to the steak dinner . That was like in December of 2000 . And summer had a surprise trip to Nashville . We love Nashville and we would take these old weekend getaways and I just went on and forgot all about this steak dinner and so , honestly , I forgot about this .

Rhett 15:57

Did you stand them up ? Yeah ?

Justin 16:00

I stood up maybe I don't know 40 people .

Rhett 16:02

Oh my goodness , so sorry , this was like at a house like a group dinner .

Justin 16:07

Matter of fact , it was at when it used to be Health South . Okay , at the Scroogey Center , oh , wow , which , ironically , you know a little bit of history . That used to be a you know this major company and now it's actually a property that we own .

Rhett 16:19

It's in Houses .

Justin 16:20

Highlands College , which we are big advocates for which my wife works at .

Rhett 16:24

And this is amazing , amazing college , and I'm an instructor for it .

Justin 16:30

I'm also with them , which is so cool , yeah , so anyway , just to now get to it , that was really the bed of what I had come from . But I finally get an invite and it just came at the right time and I decided it's February 2001, . This new church started . Somebody would , just such a sweet spirit , invited me and there was something different about this one . Yeah , I said yes and I came , and so when we end up getting there , I end up walking in with my guard up , just like I did at all these other churches that I told you I'd already visited , and so we get in there and we end up it was in an auditorium , like a high school auditorium , where they do plays and all that Anything . You just picture your high school auditorium .

Justin 17:15

And this guy was on piano leading worship and he finishes that he sends everybody to a meet and greet , he then comes around the piano and begins speaking , and all I know the ingredients of being in these fixed churches where I was already kind of judging my spirit wasn't right . Here I am at this place that's setting up and they're trying to work through all kind of stuff , and I couldn't have been any more connected . I remember the look on Summer's face after the service , because she had been so used to me saying nope , nope , nope , and she looked at me because she loved it . She said uh , what did you think ?

Rhett 17:57

And I just remember looking at her and I said we found our home . That's awesome .

Justin 18:00

And so there was such a sweet connection I had with PC and I knew this is why we stepped out . We just found where we're going to be this next season of life and so , to answer that first part , that's what got us into it . And so what happened , Red is ? I ended up just getting that bug because originally I thought we would have now taken it to the road and had our band playing . We had the tour bus plans .

Justin 18:28

We had all the deal of traveling and just something about here . I knew I wanted to be in Birmingham . I always thought I'd move out of this city and I wanted to stay . And so , you know , fast forward a few years . I'm at UAB , got my music performance degree and I go get a job at an insurance company because I don't want to leave town . I want to stay involved because at that time I began jumping in with our student pastor . We launched youth ministries in his basement like 11 people and I would lead worship

Special Connection To Pastor Chris Hodges

Justin 19:00

for it .

Justin 19:00

So here , I am resuming some of this activity . I would go out to eat with PC and , almost like at the beginning , fearing an agenda , and I always joke . Our first time we hung out together he said you like basketball ? I said yeah . He said let's go watch March Madness and we went to go watch it and I'm on guard Red .

Rhett 19:19

Even though I love him .

Justin 19:20

I'm still a bit on guard because of my past this pause here for a second .

Rhett 19:25

You went at its launch right and when they launched , how many people came ?

Justin 19:30

Yeah , at the launch I mean it was probably you know 400 and something , and then it moved backwards and then 13 weeks in , you were like at what , what was the number ? Yeah , between , I would say , 70 to 120 .

Rhett 19:40

So at 70 to 120, . You fell in love with a church a community . Yes , you know , give me like I'm curious , what was the key ingredient ? Because you're walking , you're dealing with bitterness , dealing with toxicity . You know , you didn't realize it was there . It was a budget . No , I ain't doing that whatever , but like what was outside of the God factor , like okay , yes , that's always there . What was the key ingredient ? And again , this isn't about Highlands . This is about what God was doing in your life .

Justin 20:09

This is not a story .

Rhett 20:10

This is your story , but what was the key ingredient ? And it's like you know what this is home , I mean the Holy Spirit , I get it , but like there had to be something tangible that you could put your finger on and go .

Justin 20:18

This is what it was For me , and the size once again very small , and , by the way , it could have stayed small and I thought I was at Disney World . It was the greatest place in the world to me because that's where God had assigned us . And so it was . The short answer and then I'll elaborate is it was PC , because here was a leader who , from the stage , was actually talking about issues and it was one of the first times I'd seen a pastor actually admitting like hey I got struggles just like anybody , and when he said that I thought I knew it .

Justin 20:55

I knew I wasn't crazy , it was okay to be feeling these feelings and just , you know , and it was normal and it was so relieving and so to have that . And then him engage me . And it wasn't that it was a pastor , it could have been any leader , but it just happened to be him . We were so small and we went and ate wings one day and , by the way , he introduced me to Jamaican jerk wings .

Rhett 21:19

And I've never had anything since .

Justin 21:21

And I've probably been 80 times . That's the only thing .

Rhett 21:23

I get . But , speaking of wings , really quick , like if you're in Birmingham , like to me , like the wing , so good , bomb Hauer wings have always been amazing . Okay , and I'm not like , if you're bomb hours , I love you , it's awesome . This is a side conversation , just whatever . I was disappointed .

Rhett 21:40

Oh man , I was so disappointed , I know , and I was like we went right when they opened whatever . But like my son and I , we love wings and Buffalo Wild Wings is just where it's at . But if you'd like me a little pause , break from a deep story , I'm just like Buffalo Wild Wings , come on where you at , give me some wings .

Justin 21:57

I don't agree . I agree they're good , they're so good , but because of my experience it happened to be bomb hours wings .

Rhett 22:03

Well , I guess Alabama , Auburn Another situation Anyway , but yeah so it , but bomb hours wings .

Justin 22:09

There probably is an allegiance that I have because I go there .

Rhett 22:13

It's good and I just , I'm just saying Buffalo Wild Wings has stepped up their game . I'm very proud . They're great . My boys actually love oh come on , your boy . Yeah , they love Buffalo Wild Wings .

Justin 22:24

But I always , when I go in , I'll tell them the story and they're like yeah , we've heard this story . I always tell it , but it was that moment because I went from being on guard that the pastor was going to try to now get me involved , because that's kind of what I was used to in my past and he just kept asking me questions about me and I got to be known Like a genuine interest in what you're interested in .

Justin 22:46

Bro . I mean , he didn't even talk about himself , he just wanted to know about me . And by the end of it , I'll never forget this . And you know what ? I don't care if it said to everybody . It was my story . In that moment he said exactly what I needed and he said , bro , I've never met anybody like you . Yeah , and I remember now , getting upset with him , that he didn't ask me to get involved . It was like the other way . What a beautiful leadership principle . I was like man .

Rhett 23:10

Think about that . For instance , here is Chris Hodges , who we call PC . Yeah , pastor , chris , short man in Newtown getting to know people , ingenually starting this is his heart , this is who he is and he , he , literally , he is just sitting down having a conversation with somebody wanting to get to know you , for you and add value to you .

Justin 23:30

Absolutely .

Rhett 23:30

And I think you know oftentimes a lot of us and I'm a listen , I'm a church planner , I'm a pastor , you know , in a lot of times when we try to build things , where we go at it with the agenda of , hey , what's in it for me ? Like how can this person be of use to me ?

Rhett 23:43

Yeah , and while that's , important , you know , to an extent of needing to build something and looking for the right people . The intent is always for the person , their heart . What a beautiful expression of going hey , you know I'm , I'm interested in you , man . I want to learn what makes you tick and what you love and that's awesome .

Justin 24:00

Well , it makes you want to be around him a lot more , for sure .

Rhett 24:02

And then she was genuine and he was like I'm not , he didn't , he didn't ask and he could have that's right and you know he probably wanted to , but he genuinely was just wanting to hear your heart and pastor you and get to know you and build relationship .

Justin 24:14

He's sitting across the table thinking this amazing stud that I could be getting .

Rhett 24:19

I bet yeah , and you're a 20 something year old self or something . If he only knew how great and awesome I was . Yeah , that's right .

Justin 24:26

That was a great starting point and you're dead on ultimate leadership principle there .

Justin 24:32

He got more done by not trying to do . Yeah , like he just truly wanted to get to know me and ever since that moment we just had this closeness that allowed me to settle into this new church

Students, Worship, 1st Highlands Campus

Justin 24:45

and so from that to kind of catch up more . That's when , fast forward to what I said a while ago , I began leading worship for some of our student and college ministries , helping out one of our pastors who had then come on staff really our first staff member . And that's all volunteer .

Rhett 24:59

That's right .

Justin 25:00

I found a job that would allow me to have flexibility .

Rhett 25:02

Work insurance company .

Justin 25:03

I'm full time at an insurance company .

Justin 25:05

I work hard , have good work ethic , and they gave me freedoms at certain times . I could come and hang out and it was like I'm not going anywhere and so what ends up happening ? Or worship pastor . At the time I just had such a heart for him and just said , hey , if there's anything , I just wanted to be a part of the church . There's anything I can do . If it's acoustic , if it's sing , I don't , whatever it is , I just want to be a part . And so we began to grow that relationship and I would play acoustic guitar . He would end up , because of that trust , I guess and you know there was competency there we would plant our first campus , kind of like a seat filler , you know , an office complex we had , okay , and as we were growing we needed some space and he would ask me if I would go help launch that . And this was a big deal because this was the first time . You know there's some great churches that were doing it like life church .

Justin 26:00

They were like probably the first but where people would actually listen to the message on a video . This was so foreign to us .

Rhett 26:09

If correct me if I'm wrong , but like it wasn't even anything that he honestly thought was even going to work . No , it's not going to work .

Justin 26:15

That's why some of our key leaders People let them go to the office complex to free up some seats on a Sunday , because we were by this time we were busting at the seams and you had like 3000 people trying to cram in these three services .

Rhett 26:27

And the reason behind it was , you said , seat filler , which you know .

Rhett 26:32

To clarify to that is there's a bunch of people who love Jesus already who are all in and everybody's showing up at this one location . That is now three services at the high school , yep , and it's just to take these people who are all in , who love God , who are there to , to offer them in a service to where they can give up their seats , if you will , right to allow people who really need to hear the gospel of Jesus for the first time , those who are lost yes , you know , that's the phrase we use in Christianity those who haven't come into a faith relationship with God through his son Jesus , to allow them an opportunity to be able to hear , rather than go to something that sold out and they can't get in . Right , let's create space , yeah , and like hey , if you're all in , you love Jesus , right , and by doing that , it all of a sudden it opened up another opportunity for other lost people to go to this campus and there's like what a great , what a great challenge .

Justin 27:21

And you know to have . It was beautiful because it's very selfless . So my congregation , if you will , were a bunch of our key leaders who didn't really have a Sunday function . They were some of our major small group leaders , as we talked about that last week . They were in the inner workings of the church of helping people go through some of the stuff we're talking about processing , going through the struggles and helping overcome certain issues . They were coming and serving at this place or attending church here , so that the seats were freed up and so I was leading worship . I had a band , while there's also a live band at the main high school , or our main broadcasting was happening . Matter of fact , in those days I mean , there was no broadcasting capabilities . We like to call it motorcycle speed . The early service might finish and we had a really good person on that motorcycle who could go fast .

Rhett 28:13

You had a police officer who came who turned on his lights and right now I'm kidding that's probably not what happened . That would have been great , no , it was probably illegal .

Justin 28:20

They rushed it over to the office complex and I remember leading worship and I had to wait until I saw the dude running in with his helmet you know taking it off and also getting the CD or whatever mechanism is going to play the service .

Justin 28:37

Whenever it ended up being , or eight at the different stuff , I'm on the stage and once I see that I knew that I would begin to wrap up that portion and read I was in heaven .

Justin 28:49

There was nothing greater in the world to me than working my insurance job , being married to summer and serving my church and yes , it was growing at this moment but I go back to it was 70 people and it could have stayed there and I would have been the happiest guy in the world . But we were experiencing some cool stuff and with that we started having the community come to this office complex . It was no longer just a place where leaders are coming to like free upseats . Now the words getting out and people are coming to this place . So it becomes like a what we call it , a temporary campus , because once our new building was going to be built in the next year or so , we would end that because we thought for sure that would house everybody and that would do just fine . So we started leading worship . We went to two services and I did end up coming on part time staff .

Rhett 29:37

Yeah , and to interject for a second , if I'm putting myself there and you've dialed in or maybe you fast forwarded to this point on the podcast .

Losing The Wonder

Rhett 29:45

Justin is pastoral care pastor , church of the highlands , been there from the beginning , and we're talking about kind of what gives us the moral authority in in to be able to speak about leadership and and life and lessons . We're diving a little bit more about your journey and the process that's gotten you there , and then is obviously we're dialing back to kind of the beginning of kind of some of the things you've gone through and there are so many micro details we could jump into . But my question was there ever an agenda of going ? You know what I want to be on staff here ? Like this is where I want to be . Like I want to be on staff . What was that journey ? Like I hear what you're saying yeah , I'm happy , I got this job and everything , whatever . Absolutely .

Rhett 30:18

And all of that . But like , was there ever a point ? Because before we got to this you were dealing with some bitterness and you know different things , and then you found your home , the breath of fresh air . How did you find freedom and healing , through some of those things , to get you to the place where you're like man , man , I love this place . Yeah , you know , because surely there had to be a little bit of like , oh my gosh . Like , if an opportunity presented itself .

Justin 30:39

Like man , let's you know , or maybe not .

Rhett 30:42

I don't know .

Justin 30:43

Oh no , your question's great because the first few years it was just giddy to be a part . There wasn't a desire to be on staff . It was almost like waiting that there might be that release moment of we'll probably still go hit the road at some point .

Rhett 30:58

And when you're referring to hit the road .

Justin 31:00

We were musicians , musicians traveling with a band , doing that kind of work . I thought that was a ministry that I would be doing and within this office complex , this first unofficial campus that I'm leading worship at , even that first year it was still this . I love doing this , but I didn't think about staff . But I would say , probably the second year into that , something shifted and it's like I walked in and all of a sudden I realized I don't want to be on the road anymore , I just want to be here . Like this is something that I want . And I would say before that it was very much the . I felt very experienced , I felt very capable . Yeah , I would say some pride is in that too . I'm just going in there , owning it , not knowing I'm not supposed to do this . It's like I was just a go-getter . But what would end up happening after that ? So it was beautiful too , because it was a season of healing the wounds , the bitterness . I mean it was a . It was such a great healing season .

Justin 31:56

I do attribute that those early days to PC and the people that began coming into our life . But what ends up happening after that is like peeling the onion , right . Yeah , I went from feeling capable . Now , all of a sudden , I wanted it so bad that I started feeling like needy . Well , I went from being Yo , what's up , mr Confident yeah To , all of a sudden , I'm not as confident anymore I'm I'm warning it so bad that it's almost feeling like a stripping away of things that I used to think I was good at . Because I'm wanting it so bad , I'm feeling a little bit less than less capable , and so for .

Rhett 32:35

Is that something that you recognized in the moment , or is that something now , by reflecting and looking back on that , you were like , oh , this is what I was going through . Are we like I ? Or was just purely frustration ? Are you not being able to dive into knowing what that cause was in the moment ?

Justin 32:50

No , I didn't know what the cause was in the moment , I just knew I was faithful to come . But every time I came you know I joke about I would go to you know , if we had a prayer service or we had something , I would kind of linger a little while . Okay , almost like that lingering , like maybe if I linger long enough They'll be like hey , you want to come on staff ?

Justin 33:10

Oh , yeah , and so now I went from having just Imagine a kid playing in a field . There's nothing more beautiful than just the innocence , the wonder of it all . Expression . Just they're living with the wonder .

Rhett 33:24

Yeah , the wonder .

Justin 33:25

That's my big , that is what my ministry I really I consider it's . It's about maintaining the wonder . Yeah this was a season where that wonder that had always been , it's like it got sucked away . I went from the wonder to now . I became so agenda-minded , like , how do I get on staff ? And what that meant was . I would begin to analyze the people who are on staff or the places they came from yeah ooh , I've always led worship here .

Justin 33:53

But who ? If I'm gonna do this , I got to do it this way . So I this neediness led to I didn't accept who I was . I needed to improve which you got , to improve yourself , don't you're the wrong message here . Yeah , I began to look at it and say , ooh , I've got to Become a little bit more what they are . And they , that's a relative term , guys , the they is how the enemy will mess with you .

Justin 34:16

There's not really the they it's something we create in our mind and we look at it and say , ooh , this is who I have to become and it's where you trade the beautiful part of who you are and what that meant for me . I became very agenda-minded , which means I would get up there and still be . It would be a picture of the same thing , but to accomplish it , I might be running over people to get it done , not thinking about the people .

Rhett 34:41

I'm so passionate about .

Justin 34:42

God , of course I'm running . It's like I might leave a trail of people .

Rhett 34:47

But I'm getting it done for the glory of God and it's yeah it doesn't necessarily Work that way , and I'll get to that in a minute , yeah , yeah , no , no , that's , that's really good .

Rhett 34:56

So what I'm hearing you say , if I'm , if , hopefully , I'm processing correctly with you is that at some point , the innocence of it all , the wonder of it all , all of a sudden began to kind of turn , and it was just maybe you were hearing , you know , and of course I'm speaking from the lens of perspective of walking with God there is God and then there's Satan , and God is life and he's the author of life .

Rhett 35:19

He wants to see his blessed and , yeah , in Satan , who is simply trying to destroy our life or family , everything .

Rhett 35:25

So if he can't get us from serving God and being in the church , well then he wants to try to manipulate us somehow , some way , maybe what we call foreign voices , yep , or the voice in your mind that it's a deception , it's a lie , yep , to try to get you maybe to become something that you're not in , in an effort to try to to be seen in a fresh way , because what I'm Hearing you say is I'm maybe some people are moving in from different parts of the country they're the , you know , they're coming on staff and it's like wait a minute , like what ?

Rhett 35:54

Okay , and you're analyzing this and you're looking at that and you have a heart to be on staff and now it's turned from a little bit of wonder To like , okay , what do not manipulation , but like , all right , what I'm analyzing , I'm looking , I'm Devising a plan of going okay , if a plus b equals c , then I need to do a plus b to equal c in my life to get me to a place to where I'm doing things for God and I love God . But I'm maybe doing it at a different level where I'm seeing a little bit , maybe differently in a light , and maybe you're putting on some we call it putting on Saul's armor you know I'm using some phrases that you've used in our friendship , of becoming somebody that maybe not necessarily that you're not , but that you're not .

Rhett 36:33

And you were never meant to do that right . You were never asked to do that , no , and the reason people loved you was for you who you were . But you found yourself in a position of going we , you know , yep , and that's just what the enemy will do . It's sneaky , it is .

Justin 36:46

He's , you didn't get there overnight .

Rhett 36:47

It's just one little thing , a little thing .

Justin 36:48

That's right , right , that's right . And then one day you wake up and realize what have I become ?

Rhett 36:54

It's almost like , just as God has a process for a life in development to get closer to him , to become more like Him , you know , the devil has a plan for life and he's willing to play the long game as well , with the process of little deception , little see , little life . Yeah , what , what is he biting into ? What kind of lies , you know ? Okay , and then he's willing to play that and which , to your verbiage of , all of a sudden I'm in this play . I'm like , how did I get here right and and still the beauty of , of in the sovereignty of God .

Justin 37:22

People and those you know , kind of that two-year span , three-year span , whatever it was , people were still being led into worship .

Rhett 37:30

Yeah .

Justin 37:30

Lives were being changed , relationships were being developed . So there's still this beauty that's happening , but I know for a fact I'm not being my truly unique , authentic self , and no one told me to shift that . It's me , and I could even feel it in my life , like I feel like I'm making more ground , but something is missing ,

An Awakening Moment: Reclaiming the Wonder

Justin 37:50

and so God will give you these moments where I call them just awakening moments , and so for us , in that season , december 2006 , it's a key date for me . We been married since 2000 . We decided to have kids and of course , it's not like you decide and get to have them right for everybody . With us , we went through the process and it was taken like man a year and a half , no results at all . All of a sudden , we get pregnant , and I remember being so thrilled , just Overwhelmed , and the weight of oh my gosh , I'm gonna be a dad .

Justin 38:23

Yeah and it's now the Christmas season , we are going to the mall . That's what we love , anyway we are window shopping and your lives . If you haven't been there yet , your lives change when you find out You're having a baby .

Justin 38:34

Because now yeah everything looks cute and it's like oh , they're gonna picture him in this or picture her in this , because you don't know what you're having . We're just so happy and it's some point in December of 06 , just before Christmas , we end up going through a miscarriage . I think that's something that I can get deeper into later , but the reason I say that is it was a defining moment for us , because me and summer are very close . I mean , we have a wonderful marriage and there's ministry in that for both of us as well .

Justin 39:03

That will continue to do and we'll do a greater level one day . It's just a grace gift on our life . So we , even through these tragic moments , we came together . But we would also have our own time to get away and pray and just meditate . And on one occasion Rhett , I can't even remember the scripture I'm reading in December , but it's after Christmas is over . You know , it's like there's no more decorations up , there's no lights going on outside to go look at some neighbors . The stores are completely empty . It's getting dark at like 3 30 pm Now and it's drizzly . It's just a depressing atmosphere .

Justin 39:43

Yeah anyway , on top of what we went through and I just remember , is that really dark kind of mode ? I'm in my room reading something in the Bible and I feel the Holy Spirit , this in my heart , and I don't use that lightly when you hear me say that Everything is , I feel , because you don't know unless you know . But you still got to take the steps of faith . But here's what I feel in my spirit , here's what it said to me Justin wins the last time you set across the table from someone else to hear what they had to say and that sounds so simple , right To the point . You know when you think things up and you go ahead and try to debunk it like oh well , just the other day , I mean so was I , and I couldn't .

Justin 40:22

I couldn't at all . I started realizing , because of my brokenness , I had a humility factor that had been lacking for a little bit , and I could see and hear some things I hadn't been hearing . So here's what I honestly feel God is always talking to us . My antennas were finally up , receiving the message he had been saying all along , so I could have gotten this message sooner . Humility always wins , but I was broken in this moment and I realized when you go through a tragedy , you realize what really matters . In that moment , the only thing that mattered to me was my relationship with God . How was summer , my friends ? I didn't give a flying flip about a stage , a guitar , leading worship to a congregation that no longer mattered , because I was broken . And it surfaces the things that only matter .

Justin 41:12

And I remember telling Summer about that and I realized I had been so agenda minded and I told her . I said 2007 is gonna look a lot different and with me I just take things literal . I literally took the phrase When's the last time ? You said across the table and I started scheduling coffee hangouts with some friends , and these were some of these were pastors who I used to go book , have bookings with . But I was in such a go mode that I never just stopped to say , hey man , how are you doing , by the way ? And so I just slowed down . I'd go to Starbucks . I remember on one occasion Rhett three meetings back to back to back , like I planned it out so I could be affected , and here was the goal . Just listen , and I realized how much of a fixer I am , cause I'm having these conversations and I'm almost jumping in , cause they're talking about some kind of issue . I'm about to jump in and solve their problem right , cause I'm all I'm awesome , right , that's what guys do .

Rhett 42:10

That's what leaders do .

Justin 42:11

I'm about to solve their problem . And as I'm about to talk , I just feel that voice in my heart say just listen , just hear . And I remember grabbing underneath the tables just to kind of get some of that nervous energy out yeah .

Justin 42:26

And I'm listening , fast forward to the end of the third meeting . Here's what I noticed all three ended the same way . It ended by standing up and hugging . And on the third one I had this revelation because it was the same thing said . We gave each other a hug and they said Justin , thank you so much for that wisdom . You don't know how much that helped me . And as I'm embracing them , I remember thinking I didn't say anything cause I wanted to say something . Yeah , and it was that revelation of the Lord just speaking to your heart again , saying see how much I can do in your life if you will just be available and let me do what I do best .

Rhett 43:09

That's so good .

Justin 43:10

I made more progress in three meetings without trying to do than I used to try to sit down and do . I became more of a leader or a pastor figure as an insurance guy , medical adjuster . In that moment then , the days of trying to be let me tell you what you can do better , it was no difference than PC taking me to wings , not trying to tell me what to do , and yet I hung on every word he said that's exactly what I was thinking about here .

Rhett 43:38

And if you're a pastor , your leader , your business person , you know father , mother , husband , wife . There's a lot to dial into that in regards to creating environments to listen and not to respond , which , by the way , is very difficult for me .

Justin 43:55

And I'm still learning it at 46 .

Rhett 43:57

Just ask my wife , she'll tell you , maybe one day we'll have her on this podcast .

Rhett 44:00

That's right and I'm not going to tell you that . But there's I . Just .

Takeaways

Rhett 44:04

If you just sit there and pause for a moment in that and you're thinking about where you are in life right now and the season that you're in , what I'm taking away and , by the way , I've never heard that story that's like that's cool .

Rhett 44:16

I love this about what we're doing in this environment with this podcast , because I've never heard that specific of a story about you sitting down with really no agenda other than just wanting to lean in and listen in ad value by listening and not try to fix , but just be available . And what a beautiful picture of what God simply wants to do with us . He is a father and he wants to spend time with us and listen , and God is speaking always , absolutely , and he has things to say , but oftentimes he just wants to hear us reach out to him . In any and every situation Good , bad , ugly he is always open and available to listen and no sin , no separation will ever keep him away from leaning in to somebody who has a heart that wants to connect with him To me .

Justin 45:07

That was the foundation of what allowed me to move into this next phase , which is really probably the beginning of the answer to the original question on what have we been able to be a part of . So that early step was really , really awesome Don't get me wrong to be a part of our first campus with video that . Now you have thousands upon thousands of people who do this . It was fun to be one of the original test pilots Awesome , wouldn't trade it for anything . Oh , it's so much more fancy now . Those are sweet days , but 2007 will become the revelation . That's awesome , and it became another level of ministry and assignment for my life .

Contact Armchair Authentic

Rhett 45:53

Hey guys , that was part one of a part two interview with Justin . We're gonna continue part two with Justin next episode , but until then , we just wanted to take a moment and say thank you so much for taking the time to listen to Armchair Authentic . We sure would love to hear from you , we'd love to hear your comments or any questions that you might have , because we want to make sure that this is a great experience for you , our family and our friends . In fact , we want you to feel like you are a part of this journey , and so you can reach out to us on Facebook or Instagram at Armchair Authentic , or even on X , which was formerly known as Twitter , at ArmchairOffPod . That's at ArmchairOffAuthPod . And , of course , you can email us anytime at info at armchairauthenticcom . Thank you .