Armchair Authentic

Justin 0:00

the release of NCAA football on , like Xbox , PlayStation , all these gaming consoles . We were music performance majors and we would get like a two , three hour break on certain days and we would come back to my apartment and we'd play NCAA football . And I remember one time right yeah , I loved it it was the final one of our music classes . Oh my gosh , and not that it was easy .

Rhett 0:21

Are you going there today ? I got to .

Justin 0:22

And the exam starts 1 pm . It's a two-hour exam .

Rhett 0:26

It's a two-hour exam .

Justin 0:27

We got to do one more we have to do . I know we've got that exam we would still have about 45 minutes Zero wisdom . We walked in . Clearly a lot of people had already finished the exam .

Rhett 0:37

Walking in what's up we .

Justin 0:40

And he said can I see you two real quick Outside ? Yeah , we walk out to the hallway , All right , what's going ?

Justin 0:45

on and he was like what time were you aware this exam started ? It started at one o'clock . He was like and what time is it now ? It's 2.15 . He was like why are you an hour and 15 minutes late ? And I just remember saying well , we're not late , we have two hours to complete the exam and we don't need a lot of time . He said Justin Rhett , go take your exam as soon as the last person , and when they finish , you're finished .

Rhett 1:10

We were under a time crunch at that point we all of a sudden , I hate to brag . Well , we're bragging at this point .

Rhett 1:17

There's still about five people in their seats and we turned that bad boy in and we just kind of smiled at him and he just kind of looked at us like hey guys , let's not do that again welcome back to another episode of armchair authentic a podcast with your friends red and just Today , we're really excited about having some conversations that ultimately , our hope is to lead you to taking another step on your journey of fulfilling your God assignment . Now , today , some of our conversations have been about topics like how can confrontation lead to transformation ? In fact , how about this ? Have you ever wondered why some of the greatest creativity or thoughts that you've had happen while you're taking a shower I know , right , we talk about NCAA football to creating dream sessions , about some of the ideas and thoughts that are inspiring you , and so all of that and so much more in today's episode . Now I do want to take a moment before we continue on with the conversation to simply say thank you so much to all of you who have taken the time to rate and review the podcast . Man , it means so much to Justin and I , but more than that , it is really a great way we can serve those and get the word out about this podcast .

Rhett 2:42

To those who haven't joined us on this journey yet , now , if you're joining us for the first time , justin and I want to say welcome home and welcome to the family . We are glad that you are along for the ride today . Now , if you haven't already done so , could I encourage every single one of you to go online and to follow us on all your social platforms , such as Instagram and Facebook . You can find us there at Armchair Authentic , or you can find us on X at Armchair Off Pod . That's Armchair Off A-U-T-H Pod . Now , as we've talked about for the past several weeks , we want you to be a part of this journey , so comment , send us an email , let us know what's on your mind so we can talk about it and even give you a shout out right here on the episode . You can do that by sending us an email at info at armchairauthenticcom .

Rhett 3:34

All right now onto the conversation . We're glad that you're here . It's going to be a good one today , you guys .

Creative Thoughts in the Shower

Rhett 3:48

So , justin , I had this thought . Man , I'm sitting here thinking why in the world is it that when I take a shower , I always have the most creative thoughts ? And so , as I was thinking about this , I actually had to look this up , and there are article after article after article like this isn't just some happenstance . So there's this , actually . Let me . Let me pull this up for a second while .

Justin 4:05

I'm doing this , so uh , well , we know you're at least getting clean , so that brings good thoughts because , your mind doesn't have to focus on the dirt .

Rhett 4:15

Okay , so you ready . I literally typed this into Google and this is like I put in why do I have the best creative thoughts in the shower ? And I'm going somewhere with this today . So it kind of labeled out a few things , but I'm just going to read this . It says number one the warm water can help loosen muscles and reduce tension , which can activate the brain's reward center and release dopamine . Dopamine is a neurotransmitter that can increase creative drive and help the mind wander . W-a-n-d-e-r help it wander , which can lead to divergent thinking and new connections .

Rhett 4:50

Now check this out . It says the shower environment can provide mild sensory deprivation . So , with limited sight , white noise and a lack of external stressors . So , because you can't see a ton of things , you've got the white noise going on , right , there's not a bunch of stuff happening . In other words , it says this can lead to a state of flow where people are more engaged with their inner thoughts and less likely to think deliberately . And then it goes on to say when people relax in the shower , their brain's right hemisphere can also become more active , which can help them come up with abstract solutions , which I think is really really interesting , right , and so that's just on a Google search .

Rhett 5:36

But then I read this little article in the Washington Post and I won't read the whole thing . It says , amid the mist and suds , a good shower can relax not only your body but also your mind , unleashing streams of consciousness , clarity and creativity . It says , research shows that what is known as the quote shower effect also can occur outside the shower , and many of our best thoughts don't have . This is what is interesting . Many of our best thoughts don't have . This is what is interesting . Many of our best thoughts don't happen at work or school , but occur while going about our days , with ideas incubating in the background . Creativity happens in the margins . Yeah , you know , creativity , this idea of creating in these thoughts . They don't happen when you sit down behind a computer and go all right , I want to be creative right now . So true , unless that is the space and margin where you've allowed yourself to , kind of just because , think about it .

Rhett 6:31

When you're in the shower , you're not distracted . For the most part , hopefully , you don't have your phone on the shower , unless you're listening to this podcast , which some people do , or our music , right , but it's like you just have the ability to just , really just , oh my gosh , just escape for a minute , and it's in the escape of not feeling like there's a new task , because you can't really accomplish much outside of just getting clean , right , yeah , and so I don't know , it's so weird . Am I the only one Like ? I'm just talking out loud have you ever taken a shower ? You've washed your hair and you've bathed , but then you can't remember if you did it and you do it twice , and you do it twice .

Rhett 7:08

You're like I think I washed my hair , but I don't know if I did , so I'm going to do it one more time . I think I washed my feet or my hands or whatever , and I'm like I don't remember doing it . It's so because you get in the and I thought I was the only one . But obviously this is something that is just . It's a great place , not just the shower , but it's just this the ability to take some time to create margin , to just unplug distraction free . It's in those moments man to where it's just . It unlocks something and it allows you to think abstractly and obviously there's some really cool things that can come from it .

Justin 7:45

It creates really , it enhances a moment , because creativity has to happen at times on the regular . You got to make it happen . You know , we've talked . You know people always used to say , if I'm going to write music , I'm going to write this . I got to create the perfect environment . Well , sometimes you just got to work with what you have and it's like scarcity breeds innovation . But it's nice when you can have an enhancer . So , for an , for instance , what that would mean . If I'm writing a song , I have to write . If I want to be effective , I have to write in whatever environment I'm in . But if I can set aside the time and light the candle , create the moment and I've got the guitar , my writing is enhanced .

Rhett 8:29

Yeah .

Justin 8:30

It's same thing writing a book , writing , working on ideas for a website , with a lot of the dreams that you've been working on . It's like if you enhance the environment , it's going to obviously give you thoughts you've never had before . That's , in essence , what those articles are saying . That's what a shower does . It puts you in that space .

Rhett 8:50

So if you're thinking about , maybe you're at your job and a part of your job is that you're supposed to be dreaming about something for your department , or just creativity of any kind , or just hey , we want you to get better at these different things and find ways to come up with stuff Like the idea is like the best ideas that come for companies , organizations , departments , for leadership , for people , that it it doesn't happen outside of margin is what I'm trying to say is like when I think of the shower , you're like it's a part of your routine , but it's a , it's a distraction . Free your white noise , yeah , yeah , there are things that happen with the warm water and so on and so forth , but like it's there , it's just you're comfortable , you're comfortable and you're not having to think about anything else other than just right yeah , and it's in the moments to where it's like these incredible ideas come the moments create the ah

Justin 9:47

yeah , oh , that's so good yeah , I mean mark that down , ret , yeah yeah mark that down , we're gonna remember that and if anybody uses that , remember you came up with that today , so here's the thing now .

Rhett 9:58

it's one thing to get an incredible idea , uh , or a thought , you know , and to have that as a dream , but there's another , totally there's another aspect of putting that through the process of the filter of the things we talked about a couple episodes ago the maps feature right Of being able to put feet and legs on it so that it can walk and that it can move .

Rhett 10:18

And so I think it's important and I don't know what . The other day , one of our staff meetings , we were talking about dream sessions , about just setting aside times where you can actually have a session where nothing is impossible . Like , please , do not . Like . You know how do you have a dream session for your company or organization or or your department , or your leadership , or your marriage or your family ? You know , you , you , you filter through the dynamic of what you want to dream about but where , if nothing were impossible , money were not an issue and you could do anything that you wanted to do within your department . That filters through the lens of the vision of the organization or the church or you know . Like what ? What would that be ? Write it out , throw it down and just dream and have fun doing that .

Rhett 10:58

Yeah , oh , definitely , and you know you have the right and you know you have the right and I was sharing . I was like you know you have the right people in the room when there's actually the everybody's participating and everybody's able to put out their ideas and none of them are bad and as crazy as they might sound . But you know you have the wrong people in the room when either they're really quiet and they're not engaging or they're the guys that are going . This is that's stupid . That's the dumbest idea I've ever heard , because that will stifle creativity and that will make people will not want to be creative in those moments it's the wrong moment to be saying that's not the right idea .

Justin 11:31

Right , it needs to be a safe space just to say whatever you want , because you never know . You know you throw it on the wall to let it stick right , but then it might kind of sludge on down . Let it sludge down because it might create something on it , sludging exactly anything's possible .

Rhett 11:49

A dream session is a dream session it's not a let's get practical to see how this can .

Justin 11:54

Or can't work .

Rhett 11:55

It's not a burst your bubble session yeah , it's definitely not a session where you're like , well , we don't have money to do that . Well , this is why it's called a dream session , dude , right , you know , but if anything were you know , like not impossible but possible with anything and everything , like throw it out there . Because I think it's so important to get the camaraderie and to build the trust and the ability to throw out the stupidest ideas that can oftentimes feel stupid , but like aren't stupid that become the great ideas . Yeah , like , like you know it's . You know it came to me .

Rhett 12:25

I can't remember the book that I read , but they were talking about creativity and they were coming up . It was about the state of California , it was the Northern section or it could have been Colorado , but there was . They were having trouble in the mountains where all the snow was packing on the power lines and it was a power company or electric company . And I can't not remember the book , but I remember the story and the essence of the story was they got everybody together and said we've got a major problem and nothing . We need to figure this out and we've got to figure out a way that we can knock the snow off these lines so we can get power to the people and there's an issue going on , and they said no idea is stupid , so throw out everything you can . And so everybody's like well , we need to .

Rhett 13:02

You know , kind of airlift some bears into this part and kind of drop them around so they can kind of hit the trees and knock off the snow and all this kind of stuff . And it was that kind of crazy idea that sparked an idea of going hey , that's not a bad idea . Now we might not do bears , but what if we brought a helicopter in , got it to a session where it was low enough to where the wind would propel off the propellers to knock all the snow off the lines ? Cool , and that was like .

Rhett 13:31

But that would not have happened if they wouldn't have had a dream session of allowing people to throw out what may seem like the stupid , what the crazy . Somebody like oh , just throw out some bear , you know , airlift some animals out there , and you know , but it was like , but , like you said , like that sludges down . And so I'm in just in this mood right now , dude to where I'm like . I'm just , I'm inspired and I'm trying to just think and I'm trying to dream and I'm trying to allow myself to process things to where it's not impossible to whiteboard this stuff right now .

Justin 14:01

Well , you're clearly relaxed because you called me dude three times already . On this episode Did I Awesome . It shows that you're relaxed .

Rhett 14:08

I am in a relaxed state , my mind is it's still as if I'm at the beach or something I feel like a surfer over here .

Rhett 14:14

Yeah , cowabunga , think about it though , bro , think about it . I mean , like , we are creative people . You know we've got artists that listen this podcast we have . And so the creativity side of me and you is that in order for creativity to thrive , there has to be margin , but the first step in creativity is man . Everything has to be like . This idea of like it can be possible . You can't . You can't approach it .

Justin 14:40

We would have our budget meeting . When I was with our worship department for so many years and my good friend and he was also my boss John , I would create line items . He would encourage us to Because I knew what we were wanting to do and create . I would put crazy line items on there and what I appreciated is he would laugh , but it wasn't like a dumb idea . He loved the audacious dreaming of , hey , we really need to get this and we didn't yet , but by like the third year he would beat me to it and be like hey , justin , don't forget to throw that back on . You never know , one year it's going to get approved and it's cool how over time , it actually became a thing and it got approved . And so , when you're thinking about not stifling it those little ideas , would there had ever been anything to approve if that boldness and permission was not there to dream it ? Yeah , huge .

Rhett 15:31

I love that

Creating Space for Creative Ideas

Rhett 15:32

about . Here's the thing I enjoy about our friendship , and even with this podcast , I mean , we sat down and we we talked about this thing for for what ? Two years ? I mean , even when I was in Idaho . We had talked about what would it look like to do this , you know , and to kind of just create this conversation that we could capture in a way that would steward our story to help people and . But we would dream and we wouldn't , we wouldn't limit ourself , and so here's what I'm saying the first stage and I still I don't have all this processed out , but what I have been a part of and seen being effective is the first stage in any idea is just create the margin , create the space and have the opportunity to dream big .

Rhett 16:08

Yeah , Don't ? I mean ? You know I'm not trying to take this verse out of context , but Philippians 4 , 13, . I can do all things through Christ , who strengthens me . Now , it doesn't mean that you can do anything and everything , but it does mean that you can with Christ at the center and his wisdom and his understanding and the insight and discernment and knowledge from everything we've been talking about , with the right relationships , with the right people . You know . I mean like nothing really is impossible and just because you can do something doesn't mean you should , but like don't limit yourself , Think big . I don't know why I'm on this , but I really feel like there's some people listening to this right now who've got some ideas and are thinking about , like they're probably already kind of like that inner critic we talked about talking themselves out of something . That is a God idea , it's a God moment .

Rhett 16:55

But surround yourself , put yourself in a place where you can whiteboard , throw it all up on there , get as crazy as you can , Let that sit and don't be in a hurry but like , just create the margin to just process that and think about it and churn on it and ruminate on it and meditate on it , to allow it just to kind of process through . Because what you're going to find through that is you're going to see like , well , that might be something we can do at a 50,000 foot view , but now that you've done that , you're now you can move that into like a phase two , where you bring some other people into the room that might not be the visionary , might not be the creative , but they're the people that go . I can help you bring this vision to life and I can show you where the holes are and start punching holes in everything . Then you can start getting practical on , you know , not ripping it apart , but actually looking at it from all angles .

Justin 17:47

Right Kind of . Another vantage point to look at it from is I was going to have a a coaching call with someone really recently to serve this person the best for coaching .

Justin 17:59

I didn't want to be in the office atmosphere because he needed a little bit more creative thinking and because I had the space to do this office atmosphere because he needed a little bit more creative thinking and because I had the space to do this , I went , as I've said , to . One of my favorite places is I go to the botanical gardens in Birmingham , alabama , and I'll walk the gardens because it's just a place that I can , I can breathe in , I can take it in and it just opens me up . And so I'm got my AirPods , I'm walking the gardens , listening to them share this stuff , because I try to be in a listening mode so that when it's time for me to speak , I can speak a little , but it can be effective thoughts . And it was huge , but it took me getting out of a certain zone that I would say I could have done that if I didn't have the margin . I would have had to just stay where I was and it would have still been good .

Justin 18:46

But I gave enhanced creative advice . Just like your mind can go when you're in the shower . It's a space that you are , you're comfortable , your mind you're kind of on autopilot . I can walk the space . It's finding that creative space that you can actually go , give your best .

Rhett 19:02

And I do think it's interesting , though , that your creative space that gives your best can look different on different days .

Justin 19:07

Yep .

Rhett 19:08

So it could be . Maybe you're driving to work . Uh , maybe it's when you're working out . Oftentimes it's when you're doing tasks that are often mundane , tasks that don't take a lot of energy , which is interesting . I mentioned that about driving . How many times have you ever driven somewhere ? And then you get there ? You're like how did I get here ?

Justin 19:26

Oh , isn't that crazy All the time .

Rhett 19:28

I mean it's like what is happening but your just mind goes into this place because you're not . I mean you're focused on one thing at a hand but you're kind of have the ability to just kind of you're engaged but you're able to wonder Right , you know , in the wonder I like that To wonder in the wonder you got to Of it all .

Rhett 19:47

I like that You're not waiting for inspiration , but you are creating space for inspiration and a part of the task is creating the room . Yeah , you know , and not just sitting around , but like , actually like well , if you're a writer , then you just got to write . You just can't sit there and go . I don't have nothing to say . Well , even write that at this moment I have nothing to say . There is nothing actually coming . You know , just as you're writing all of that out coming to my mind , but it's like you just have to , you have to put yourself in those positions , because either way , you've got to create .

Justin 20:19

If you're a creator , I teach a class at Highlands College and one thing that I'll do in one of my classes is with all the students . Now we're in an academic environment , so it's not very creative , but the message that I'm , or the lecture that I'm giving , is very much about bringing that creative side out on other moments and I'm trying to show them something bringing that creative side out on other moments and I'm trying to show them something . So I'll say everybody you know everybody get your pen and get this , get your notepad or your laptop , whichever one you prefer . People have their different ways . I'm going to , I'm going to stay quiet for about three minutes and then what I do is I just tell them whatever's on your heart , just begin journaling , go ahead . I'll try to inspire them with some words , to generate some thoughts . But I'll just say just begin journaling , all right , just just start with one sentence . It just takes one sentence . Now add your next . All right , I'm going to stay quiet . All right , we got a minute left .

Justin 21:10

And then , finally , I'm like all right who wrote the re sentences at least and you have a hundred percent of the people .

Rhett 21:17

Okay .

Justin 21:17

And then I'll go higher , but not too high . But you can see who the real creatives are . But the point that I make with them is do you realize you just wrote something that you came up with in the moment . You express something you did in probably the worst environment . You could have done that because we're in a class and I made you immediately come up with something .

Justin 21:38

And the point that I'm making with them is if you could wake up in the morning or have some space where you write down your thoughts , just to get it out , even if you're frustrated , write your frustrations and you're going to see what it does to your life . And they basically have proven what they in the past probably said oh , I got to have the right moment , I got to have the right room to do this . And you basically say , yes , we love those enhanced environments of getting to create , but you still must create . You must still give yourself a place to let your brain , even if it's not creation , but just have the mindless activity of . I know you go play golf .

Justin 22:17

It allows your mind to kind of have this sense of respite , whatever it is , so that you're a . You go play golf . You know it allows your mind to kind of have this sense of respite , whatever it is , so that you can focus in . It almost reminds me

EA Sports College Football Meets Music Theory

Justin 22:25

of the release of NCAA football on like Xbox , playstation , all these gaming consoles . If you don't know , this was like the epic football game around the country . I know we have a lot of cities that listen , and NFL may be your big thing , but where we're from in the South , college football is huge and they had to stop making this game 10 years ago because they didn't have the rights .

Rhett 22:50

So they didn't have the rights to the name of the person , their image , their likeness , right To use it . So the , the company was making money off of people , like they'd be making money off of you , if you're on their team , or me , yeah , off their team , but they weren't sharing that wealth with the actual like they were taking advantage of of people .

Justin 23:07

really and since then the ncaa has allowed it , where these athletes can get paid for their name , image and likeness so the the cool thing about that .

Justin 23:16

now the game after 10 years , all that's been developed , even with like congress , all the stuff that's allowed all these rules to now be implemented . That favors the player . So I'm excited because NCAA is coming out and my kids are at that age . They're going to get to experience what I did when I was their age . Oh yeah , and not just me , but me and you had some epic battles on our Well , we're very , we're very competitive .

Rhett 23:43

And extremely when it comes down to trying to win anything , I think . At the end of the day , I think that maybe , maybe , that is what has sustained our friendship for so long . Just when I moved away , we really didn't have anything to be in competition with anymore .

Justin 23:55

No .

Rhett 23:55

So we didn't have as many uh , you know arguments or ?

Justin 23:58

fights or whatever . I just remember winning the last game before you moved to texas , but that's whatever . I don't think so . Anyways , that's not how I remember the story was actually florida , but you might have won the last you might have won the last game , but I think I had one . You could have run the clock . No , no , no , you could have . You could have run the clock out , and I do that thing where I trip like I let you score on purpose but I'm like , oh , shoot , yeah , whatever .

Justin 24:22

And then I kick an onside kick and I score and then get a two-point conversion .

Rhett 24:25

No wait , so you might have won the last game , but I won the war in that I won more battles and I had the winning streak that was longer .

Justin 24:32

That's debatable .

Rhett 24:33

No , it's not debatable . That's the truth . I was like you might have won the last one .

Justin 24:36

Who was your team ? But I've won .

Rhett 24:38

Texas Longhorns . At that point , that would have been the one that I would have used , because that would have been oh , I forget the name of the quarterback . Anyway , he was the one , I think , that lost to .

Justin 24:48

Alabama the 2009 National Championship , colt McCoy .

Rhett 24:51

Yeah , it is . And the only reason I chose them is because I think I was about to move to Texas and they were really good at that timeframe .

Justin 24:57

So you were in your so , but I had , I had learned .

Rhett 25:00

I mean , it's interesting how they make these games , cause they're the realistic , based off real stats . I I'm an Auburn fan , but I'm not . At that time I was not about to choose Auburn to play because they weren't very good . So therefore , if you're , if you , how good I am the computer is going to play those players at their level of of , however they were , and it's a slight advantage to the team that has the better all A's instead of an A , b and C kind of offense defense .

Justin 25:26

But what ended up happening ? Me and Rhett would take these breaks because we were , um , we were music performance majors , yeah , and so we would take breaks in between class and we would get like a two , three hour break break on certain days and we would come back to my apartment and we play ncaa football and I remember one time right I loved it where it was the final of our music , one of our music classes oh my gosh , are you going there today ?

Justin 25:51

I I got to , not that it's an easy class , but I will say we are so locked in and had been doing music we just didn't know what to call it theoretically . But we did our music stuff so we knew what we were doing going in and what we found out is our professor gave us a name to what we were doing .

Justin 26:09

So we were over here like being liberated with this is amazing and you'd have other people scratching their head trying to figure out what is musical theory , and me and Rhett we're sitting there and we decide it was a classic classic game it would be a game that's a tight game .

Rhett 26:27

It'd be like the one that you would always want the . You know you're watching the super bowl or the college football championship last second . It's a close game down to three seconds on the clock , you know , or one second all we need is a second . Thank you very much , albert we are not going yes , so anyway . But yeah , they were close , tight games . You never knew who was going to win so classic you never

Lesson Learned From Exam Mishap

Rhett 26:45

knew .

Justin 26:45

And it would go back and forth and it would have been one of those games where we both were like we got to do one more we have to do .

Rhett 26:51

I know we've got that exam .

Justin 26:52

And then you know we need to be there it takes us 30 minute drive to get there . And the exam starts basically . No , this is like , this is an afternoon one . The exam started at like 1 pm . It was already 1230 . So we knew if we get one more game in the exam lasts two hours is what it said .

Rhett 27:12

Yeah , it said it's a two hour exam .

Justin 27:14

It's a two hour exam . They give you two hours for the exam and what we did with that is me and Rhett were playing NCAA and we did the math and it's like we can get one more game in . We got this . We can drive to our college , which is UAB . Blazers , go , blazers . We made our way to UAB and we would know that we would still have about 45 minutes of that two-hour period . Once again , that's how our mind was thinking . We got to UAB Zero wisdom zero self-awareness .

Justin 27:43

We weren't thinking about anybody but ourself Juniors in college . We were walking up in there and we go into that class and our professor which I'm just going to say his name because he was one of my favorite professors- there is . Oh great it was Professor Clemens , dr Clemens , dr Clemens . Favorite professors there is great , it was professor clemens , dr clemens , dr clemens . We walked in , as you know , you still got several people at their seats . Clearly , a lot of people had already finished the exam but there's still about eight people .

Justin 28:08

Let me say at , least 10 yeah , at least . And they're there still in the room taking it and we walk in .

Rhett 28:13

it's been a full hour , so we get so two hour exam . We're coming in at the end of hour one with another hour in our minds .

Justin 28:20

Yeah , yeah , maybe maybe we , maybe it was one , yeah , maybe it was two .

Rhett 28:23

15 by now .

Justin 28:24

We still have 45 minutes left , but we just go to our the doctor and we're like hey , walking in , We'll take our exam now . Then he said can I see you two real quick outside ? Yeah , we walk out to the hallway , all right .

Justin 28:39

And he was like what time were you aware this exam started ? And we said started at one o'clock . He was like and what time is it now ? It's two 15 . He was like why are you an hour and 15 minutes late ? And I just remember saying well , we're not late , we have two hours to complete the exam and we don't need a lot of time . To which he replied did it ever occur to you that ? I don't think it's going to take everybody two hours and I might actually have some things I want to go do on my own , yeah .

Rhett 29:09

No , no , we were . Yeah , I mean we weren't rightfully trying to think selfishly , but we were . That was a growing moment .

Justin 29:17

It was a life lesson .

Rhett 29:19

Talk about confrontation and learning from confrontation .

Justin 29:22

Well , he told us . He said Justin Rhett , go take your exam . You're finished as soon as the last person that's done in the room when they finish , you're finished . And we were like , oh no .

Rhett 29:38

We were under a time crunch at that point .

Justin 29:40

We all of a sudden , we did it . And you know .

Rhett 29:43

I hate to brag . Well , we're bragging at this point Because we got it done , dude . We did it 20 minutes , we were done .

Justin 29:52

There's still about five people in their seats , and we turned that bad boy in and we just kind of smiled at him , but our heads were kind of down Like sorry , Dr .

Rhett 30:00

Sorry bro , we really liked him a lot . We love Dr Clemens .

Justin 30:04

And uh , and he was , and he just kind of looked at us like , hey guys , let's not do that again . We were like yes , sir , so never did it again , or our minds clear with all that football we came in and we rocked that exam . So we had an enhanced chill moment and we came and we knocked that exam out , but we did not earn favor points with the instructor .

Rhett 30:30

Not at that point , but it was really good that we finished that because we basically said , okay , look , we knew what we were doing , but at the end of the day we were never late again .

Justin 30:39

wrong approach , no we humbled ourself and we got early to every class . After that , to show him to the point , he's finally smiling at us , realizing like these boys , these silly boys , they just don't know what they're doing .

Rhett 30:51

God bless them they think they know something . Wait till next semester , when we start getting into some serious oh man , you know music theory stuff .

Rhett 30:58

Oh my goodness good times , good time , yeah

Navigating Creative Feedback and Advice

Rhett 31:01

. So the creative space , the margin , you just I think it's huge . And so if you've got an idea , you're thinking through something , don't limit yourself . Don't already start thinking through the practical side of things . Put yourself in a place to where you can dream and and let it breathe , man , just give it some time to process . I think that there's nothing . Why are you in a hurry , like let it come to fruition and let all the crazy ideas exist and then , once you're ready to move to the next stage and you'll feel that , once you've kind of thought through everything you possibly can then start bringing in the close people you know , like we talked about , through the maps , you know .

Justin 31:35

Yeah , what's the ?

Rhett 31:35

motivation in this Motivation . You know , yeah , what's the motivation in this motivation ?

Justin 31:41

yeah , what was the a yeah ?

Rhett 31:42

advice is the vice part right ? Yep , that's right . And and I'm doing that with you right now , with a few things that I've been dreaming about that god has just kind of I feel like they're through , those moments I'm being poured into and , um , and yeah , I'm filtering through those and and I'm even asking you the question of , like , what are you seeing anything that I'm not ? And you're not the only one . I'm asking other people to Right , and I'm getting multiple , not just opinions but advice to help me see things that I might not see , and then go all right . Well , now , if we're going to , let's take this thing to the next stage . Let's get practical on . Where would we , you know , how would we scale this ?

Justin 32:15

And when you get advice from people make sure you're setting up where you know they're in a good headspace to give you advice , or they might just tell you it's not a good idea .

Rhett 32:27

Yeah , yeah , it's true . No , there's timing , is everything I mean . You know , you need to know , like if somebody has had a long day and you're really excited about whatever's going on , you might not want to open up to them in that moment because , especially if they're already drained and they're just very like at the very task oriented , I don't have time to dream or think , yeah , that's stupid . You know kind of moment you might get that and it might not be the truth .

Rhett 32:46

But it might just be . Hey , you know you're asking me at the wrong time .

Justin 32:49

So timing is huge when it comes to that . Don't ask them at 2.15 when they needed you to be there at 1 pm . Yeah right , they don't appreciate they don't appreciate your genius as much when you're an hour and 15 minutes late to the moment .

Rhett 33:04

Let me take it another level . Also , don't go to people that you know will say yes .

Justin 33:10

Like .

Rhett 33:11

I think it's important whenever you're processing ideas , you can find people that will go oh yeah , man , yeah , yeah , absolutely , that's great .

Rhett 33:22

And not care enough about you to tell you the truth , and they don't care if you're out there walking off a cliff , you know . But like , see it on American Idol . Yeah , it's . You know , as a pastor , I've had people come to me before and I shared this in a message the other day at a church and I uh , it was to the context of you know , oftentimes we can approach God with this prayer of like . You know , we have our agenda and we try to just make God's word or put God in a position where we get the answer we want . And so it's like that guy who wanted to go play golf or the guy who wanted to go fishing and his prayer was Lord , today I want to go play golf and if that's okay with you , would you cause the sun to rise today ? Now , of course , the sun is going to rise , every single day .

Justin 33:59

It's got a good track record of doing that .

Rhett 34:00

Right by the grace of the Lord . So it's like that's not what I'm talking about . Don't come with your own agenda to hear what you want to hear and to position yourself to either even soundbite the Bible in ways that speak to your agenda . The media does this all the time . They soundbite things to tell a story of the narrative they want to tell with their own agenda . Right , and you can do that , even with your dreams , you can like . Well , I really want to do this , and so I'm going to ask some people , but I'm going to ask the people that I know will tell me what

Confronting With Grace and Love

Rhett 34:29

I want to hear .

Justin 34:29

It's like the movie you got mail when Tom Hanks character Joe Fox , he did the media interview where he talks about his big bookstore and we have books and we serve . But they took the soundbite and it shows him real quick and Joe Fox is with his buddy , they're walking on the treadmill or jogging and you're like , oh , here's my part , check it out . And he goes yeah , so we sell books , so sue me . And then it leaves and he's like that's not what I said . He's like did you say , did you not say that ?

Rhett 34:59

Well , I said it , but I was eloquent , they took it out of context , right and so . But we can do that with our creative ideas . We can go to people and get , get people to say yes , or the agenda , or you know , and it's like no man go to people that that love you enough to tell you the truth , which I think is interesting because you know , I think if I'm looking at my life , I'm going , you know , if I'm somebody on the other end going , well , I don't know if I have those people in my life . Well , now's the time to start investing into , start , you know , going that road and that process of trying to get the right people in your life that can help guide you .

Rhett 35:33

And you know you have the right people in your life when they can tell you the truth , but they can speak the truth in love , but they can offer speak the truth , not only in love , but they can offer grace with a conversation too , yeah , which I think is kind of a whole nother idea or a thought , or I don't know if I can speak from the grand scheme of things , but what I , what I do walk away with here , more than ever before when I'm working with leaders , is that that is a lost art and people aren't being taught how to confront people in a way that's full of love , full of compassion , with relationship equity , to be able to speak a hard truth in a way that's filled with grace , that can bring about life and honor in those conversations .

Rhett 36:19

Because we've got a lot of people who are good at confronting people man , that sucks , that's horrible , right but we don't have a lot of people who are engaged in a relationship with relational equity , in a way that says you know what I'm for you , you know I'm for you . We spend a lot of time together . While this might be a great idea , let me give you some truth . But I want to do this in a way that honors you , honors the idea and ultimately encourages you and lifts you up , because I love you enough to speak the truth in love and not just to affirm , but to encourage , but yet to motivate , inspire , but do it in a way that's life-giving and not all life-giving . Confrontation feels life-giving in the moment . Correction doesn't always feel life-giving .

Justin 36:58

Sometimes it's wounds from a friend .

Rhett 37:00

Yes , exactly .

Justin 37:02

Some of the moments that have hurt the most is what I look back on , and I'm so thankful for those friends of mine who have been honest with me .

Rhett 37:11

It was Dr .

Justin 37:11

Clements in the moment Exactly .

Rhett 37:13

He was a great professor , but what made him great is that he was kind to us and he gave us grace . He spoke the truth , but he did it gracefully . But he also wanted the best for us and it was like , from that moment on , we really had a good friend in him and my respect grew for him too , because he was almost I'm not going to say he's like a father figure , but almost in a way of trying to learn something , and being around somebody you want to learn from is like , but almost in a way of trying to learn something and being around somebody you want to learn from is like . I looked at him as like man . This is a mentor in my life and I'm glad he confronted me and it made me better .

Justin 37:43

It made you better , you know , but he didn't do it in a degrading way the best ones happen when it doesn't feel like you just got insulted and degraded . It's we know , when we were you know our 15 , 16 year old selves we just had our lives completely changed . We had a sense of a calling of ministry and I remember we would have choir rehearsal with Pastor Rod and we just , notoriously , would come in late . We didn't think anything of it , we just come in late . But not only did we come in late , he'd be in the middle of something with him and we'd just bust up in there like it's our party , and now everybody's looking at us and smiling and we have just distracted . And he was so gracious He'd be like hi , boys .

Justin 38:30

And after about the fourth time he took us to his office one day and we talked about being a man of your word and what that means . If it starts on time , you arrive on time . In that one moment , that meeting , I never felt like he was punching us , but it changed my life and I still live with these values . That wounds from a friend . We literally lacked the awareness and he could have come and brutally laid it on us , but he didn't . And so the lesson went so much further with me , in the right way , because of that .

Rhett 38:59

We had somebody email us the other day . We were talking about this uh , a friend of ours you know , her name is a longtime friend , but all the way back to Parkway , uh , melissa , melissa .

Rhett 39:10

So , melissa , we want to give you a huge shout out . First of all , thank you for listening , thank you for your support and thank you for your email . And so melissa just had this thought the other day . She was talking about offense and and , uh , you know how do you deal with offense and how do you handle all these different

Confrontation With Grace and Love

Rhett 39:24

things ? And and uh , one of the things that I was thinking about with this confrontation thing is a lot of us don't want to confront people because they're afraid that they're going to offend somebody .

Rhett 39:35

I don't want to hurt their feelings , I don't want to offend them . You know , we live in this very hypersensitive climate , in our culture of I just , I want to make everybody happy . I don't want to offend them . If I say something that offends them , then it offends them . That I offended them , then I'm offended , that they're offended , then he's offended , that she's offended , and so it really is . I mean , it's a big deal . And so when I think of confrontation , I don't think of it as a negative thing . Yeah , me neither . I think of confrontation in the biblical sense , and I've been taught , and from doing some research , that the very root of the core of this word of confrontation means to turn your face towards . Simply , that's all it means . It doesn't mean to stir up strife , it's so cool .

Rhett 40:15

It just means , hey , you know what ? I'm turning my face towards you . God does this with us . He's a loving father , he's slow to anger , he's rich in love , he's merciful , he's grace like unfailing love . Our loving father confronts us , he turns his face towards us . He has our best interest at heart , and because he has our best interest at heart , what he does is he teaches us , he corrects us , he calls us out towards life , toward godliness , toward hope , toward making us the best version of ourself . And so that's where God is calling us to , and so we're in his image , and so our confrontation should be that of our Heavenly Father . Heavenly Father is I'm turning my face towards you because I love you enough to confront in a life-giving way , with truth but yet with grace , and to bring you to a place where you're going to grow , where you're going to get better . I need that in my life . I have that in my life , but we also need to be doing that in other people . But you can't do it without relationship . You got to have a relationship .

Justin 41:14

That's the key , because if I were to take you back , to every one of those confrontations that stuck with me in the best of ways . Way before that confrontation ever happened , pastor Rod already had us over at his house with steaks , baked beans , basketball , swimming fries grilling out a bunch of hanging out watch Michael Jordan and the bulls play , and so same thing with anybody that .

Rhett 41:41

I could say right now but like , like he was relationally invested into us , like it's like nobody cares how much you know to know how much you care . So we knew how much you care about how much he invested into us . That's right .

Justin 41:52

And same thing with Dr Clemens , like it wasn't just about class , like he invested time into us . He would go over at the end of class and spend extra time . Yeah , to the point , by the time I'm finishing my last , I have to have like an advanced music theory class . And the one that was offered on that rotating basis I didn't want . I wanted the one that was like composition . I wanted to compose , like with symphonies , and he created a class for me to actually do an advanced theory on symphony composition .

Justin 42:24

And he personally administered that class the entire semester .

Rhett 42:28

That's called relationship media Instagram , facebook it gives you the false sense that you have relationship with people and so when you post something , you offend somebody because you have no relationship , there's no connection . It's like uh , I forget that Blair person , we talked about a few episodes . They they're like well , y'all look fake , it doesn't look authentic , like you're acting like well , you don't know us . That's right . We're not a relationship . I guarantee if we had that relationship , I would take that correction . If you knew us and we're doing life with each other and you're seeing a side of us that isn't real , then , like I mentioned before , I'll take that all day . But because there's no relationship , offense can come in . Well , you've offended me .

Rhett 43:10

Well , yeah , you've offended me because we don't know each other . And so we've got the keyboard , trolls and warriors . Little you know the keyboard , you know trolls and warriors out there . They feel like , well , I've got the right to say a comment . I've told , I've told this to a family member before . I said I know you think you're changing the world with every you know political stance and Facebook and the height of COVID and all the crazy stuff . Right , I know you think you make any difference , but you're really not . You're white noise in a sea of just . You know you're just echo chamber for all the people that think the way you think and it's just a bunch of just , honestly just crap . It's just crap . You're a part of the problem . You don't care .

Justin 43:49

You don't care a thing about the person you just commented to . You just wanted their actions to cease that you did not agree with , but you care nothing about the advancement of them pursuing the calling that God has placed on their life Exactly .

Rhett 44:05

And so I guess

Purposeful and Heartfelt Advice

Rhett 44:07

what I . I guess , at the end of the day , when it comes to offense , to help people . It's like it's easy to care in offense when there's no relationship , and so you just got to get to the place where you've got to have I don't want to say thick skin , but you've got to get to the place , to where you've got to be enough in yourself , to where God is enough , you're enough , and whether or not somebody says something or doesn't , I'm just not going to let that bother me .

Justin 44:30

And it goes to the advice column we talked about . Even in that whole process of the MAPS framework , it's's I'm I'm . Advice I'm only taking from people I'm connected with . And if you're going to um call me out on something and we're not in relationship , I've got to . I hope that I am growing enough where I don't let that stick with me . So it's like two part . I'm not going to really take that . Well , I'll say it this way I'm going to put that advice you just gave me , I'm going to put it in this compartment of my brain called I'll get to it later . Maybe this doesn't really matter to me , but at the same time I now can't carry the offense .

Justin 45:12

They don't know what they're doing their agenda whatever , I'm not connected enough with them to honestly care because there's nothing there . But when it's true connection and it hurts me , that's okay because that is the sense of they were looking after my own good and it hurt and if I can take the offense that's arising up inside of me and just try to humble myself and give it time to realize their intent .

Rhett 45:41

They were telling me that because they were truly trying to help me get better Because you have a relational connection and time over time , you're like , hey , you're not always going to get it right , but if the goal and the command is love and your motivation of the confrontation comes from a place of , I love this person enough that I want to have a hard conversation , not just for hard conversation sake , but to have a hard conversation that leads toward life , I think you can approach it that way . In in every variable is different , but I've had these conversations over time where I'm honest , I'm like you know , I love you , man , we've been doing life for so long , I believe in you , but like we got to talk , all right . And here's the conversation . And I'm gonna be honest , this is hard for me because I'm your friend or mentor or you know , whatever you might be , but I've just got to talk about this . You said this , this , this .

Rhett 46:35

I know who you are and what you did does not , or what you did or what you said does not , reflect the character and the nature I know you are based off the time we've spent , and so I want to talk about that and I want to see how we can get better . And I'm bringing this to you because I love you enough to be able to have a truth-filled conversation , but to do it in a way that's filled with grace , to let you know that I care about you . And I tell you one of the one of the I don't know if this is a secret or one of the things that have helped me , but when I get into a tough conversation and I'm and I'm talking through something where I'm trying to help somebody grow , I always try to also take a moment where I can say you know , I've been right where you are . Here's what I dealt with , here's where somebody corrected me and this is how I've grown from it . Or here's something that I'm currently working on . So we're all currently growing .

Rhett 47:22

That way , it doesn't look like I've just got it all together and I've got it all figured out , and I'm I'm the one constantly bringing like I'm going to say look , man , I got things I'm working on too . And here's one thing that I've had to work on and that I'm working on in this moment and I'm honest with them . And what it does is it creates this connection of going oh wow , you're okay Right , you don't ? You know , you're not acting like you got it all together and that's that . But there's not a lot of leaders who do that , because there's vulnerability in that and there's that . Oh well , if somebody thinks that I'm not perfect , well then I lose the respect . It's like no , you gain respect and especially when you're trying to help somebody grow , you're using your own real life example of where you've had to grow or where you're currently growing to help them understand that we're all on this journey together .

Justin 48:06

Yeah , and when you're giving somebody connected advice , I mean you're really trying to help turn the light on .

Justin 48:12

That's all you do , you're not trying to fix them , and I've struggled with that in the past too . It's like you know , you got that complex of wanting to be the hero and you want to have all the answers , and so you're . You're frustrated when you see somebody because you've learned from it , and now you're frustrated with them and you try to fix , fix , fix . And our goal really is to stop trying to fix people . You're trying to bring hope to the situation , or really so that they you're trying to turn on the light , so that they can see the hope , no matter where they're in whether it's little or they're in a crisis moment , so that they can take that hope and build it up into a sense of agency to do something . And you're that guide really for them . You're giving connected advice , but you're not trying to fix . You're trying to be that person who's steady for them . What's your motivation for giving advice ? Are you giving motivation because you're wanting to glorify God and you're wanting to truly build them up ? Or are you giving advice because it makes you feel like you're enough ? And so I think on our end , as people who are advising , we've got to make sure our heart's right .

Justin 49:19

For example , I had a friend playing a song they had written . I've written a lot of songs and I've gotten to be around a lot of great songwriters and I call myself Rhett because they were playing a song and the melody they're singing it had a lot of great potential in it , but the melody was moving around . So much it potential in it , but the melody was moving around so much it wasn't consistent from each melody and I , honestly , I wanted to the fixer in me , I wanted to help them have a great completed song . So I almost stopped and said , hey , listen , try doing this and this . But they weren't asking me yet . They were presenting the song . That's good . So I needed to get out of fixer mode , yeah , and I just needed to actually listen .

Justin 49:56

It's the creative that we started this in . This was an ideation moment where they're just throwing it up and letting it stick , so it's like there's not a bad idea . Right now I'm listening to the song because so many times I want to go correct it and what I'm really doing is I'm trying to put to their song what I would do if it's my song . Well , no , it's their song . Let them try to construct it instead of me putting my thoughts into it . And in the same way with advice . Sometimes we're just telling them to do what we think they need to do to fix their issues , when sometimes they've got to live their story out , they've got to make their mistakes , so that you can give guidance to them without trying to be a dictator over them .

Rhett 50:39

I think that's a great perspective . When I'm always trying to help people and teach them about confrontation , I ask them this question Are we , are we looking for behavior modification or are we looking for heart transformation , simply just dealing with a fruit ? Or are we getting to the root ? Because oftentimes we approach things and we do this with parenting , you know , and I'm guilty of this as well , but it's this idea of I don't , I don't want to fix somebody's behavior , because then that's just a what I want to get to the why . Because ultimately , 90% of the time , if there's a , if there's a behavior that that is exuding or the fruit of somebody's life , it's not because they're wanting to do that , it's just there's something else happening behind the surface . And so when you're trying to help somebody grow and you're confronting them on this issue that's why I come from the perspective of listen .

Rhett 51:28

I know who you are , we've walked this road , I've done life with you and I know exactly who you are and the character I've seen and I'm seeing something in your life right now , or whatever that might be , or whether it's on the job . It's like I'm , you know , whether showing up on time or late or whatever , and it's like , obviously there's something here with the behavior , but I'm really not interested in just trying to get them . You need to show up on time , you need to get here . I'm going hey , what's going on in your life , like what's happening right now . How's your home life ? Like ? What is there ? You know , let's talk , because I'm your friend , because what you'll find is , when you start opening up and you approach it through the relational connection , you'll find that oftentimes there's things that are happening in their life . They're like oh well , that makes sense . Yeah , no wonder this is the product of the behavior that we're getting right now . It's because there's something deeper happening behind the surface , yeah , and so my whole thing with this whole idea is like if I'm after heart transformation , I'm getting to the root , because if you get to the root , then the fruit will produce from there . In other words , the behavior will line up according to what's in the heart .

Rhett 52:35

I know we've mentioned it before If you guard your heart , why ? Because everything out of that overflows , everything comes out of that place . So if your heart is healthy , then your behaviors will be healthy . Yeah , and so I don't want my son just acting a certain way in certain environments . No , I want him to have a healthy heart to where he knows that the byproduct of just a healthy heart is that when I'm in this situation , I'm going to show up on time or I'm going to whatever it might be Right . So so I think , when it comes to confrontation and you're dealing with people and learning how to help them grow , truth , grace , relationship is huge , but don't be so focused on the behavior as much as you are the heart .

Justin 53:14

So we're not here to fix the situations on the behavior as much as you are the heart . So we're not here to fix the situations . We're here to create an environment where they experience hope , so that that can lead to the light being turned on and they get a sense of agency in their own life , so that they can take it from there and begin to grow in the assignment that God's given them .

Rhett 53:34

Galatians 5.22, . But the fruit of the spirit is love , joy , peace , patience , kindness , goodness , faithfulness , gentleness and self-control .

Reach Out To Us: Info@ArmchairAuthentic.com

Justin 53:53

Thank you for listening to Armchair Alpinic with Rhett and Justin . We had a great time with you today . Hey , let's keep the conversation going . Email us at info at armchairauthenticcom . Give us your thoughts , your comments . Whatever you're going through in life , we want to team up with you to help you take on your God assignments . We look forward to seeing you next time .