Journey of Pastoral Friendship and Influence

Rhett 0:00

Well , Justin , it's really great to have another conversation with another incredible friend . Tripp Healy is with us . He is pastor of Ridge Church . Pastor Tripp , it's great to have you on the podcast today , man .

Trip 0:12

Awesome to be here . It really is my honor . Love both of you guys , known y'all for quite some time , in and out of different seasons . This is a special moment , appreciate it .

Rhett 0:22

Tripp , you and I met in the summer of 2014 . And so we've known each other . You know , going on 10 , 10 years now , which is crazy for you to hang out with me that long . I'm really thankful there's so many backstories here , but I wasn't just to give some people some story . You know , I was serving Church of the Highlands for a few years and then was in a season of transition in June of 2014 .

Rhett 0:44

And in that season of transition , while we were trying to pray about what was happening next , we decided , hey , there's this church that just planted a year ago in our own little town right now of Wetumpka , alabama . Come on , wetumpka . And I was like we're just local church people , so let's just go hang out and meet some pastors and love a team . And we walked in the doors of your church somewhere around the last Sunday of June of 2014 . And I would have never known what God was going to do through that simple step of walking through your doors and building a relationship . But we started serving your church in a season when we were trying to pray about what's next . And obviously , through seasons of transitions I'll fast forward my wife and son and I we've just really just had a deep connection with you and your church and even had the opportunity to you housed us in a season in 2017 , before we actually went and planted a church up in Idaho . You guys are so gracious to open up your home and allow our family to have a place of transition . So my heart , so people know and understand the relationship here like it's deep .

Rhett 1:53

I am deeply grateful for the Healy family and what they've invested into me personally opportunities they've allowed me . In fact , one Life Church in Idaho would not exist if it wasn't for the man that you're hearing from today . Because of their financial investment into our family , into our church . They were the cosigner , if you will , on One Life Church and so it's just amazing . So I am deeply indebted to your sacrifice , your obedience , your faith , your love , your perseverance and all that you've poured into us and belief into us and my family .

Rhett 2:28

So I am deeply honored to have you on the podcast so people can get to know you a little bit more , like I know you , but also the story , because even you know we've walked 10 years and here you are as a church planter . You're obviously an incredible husband . You're an incredible dad , you're a business owner , you're a leader as far as a pastor is concerned , but you're also a social media influencer We'll talk more about that in a moment with Camo Preacher and so all of this sounds amazing on the surface , but there are so many stories behind the surface that have actually got you to where you are today , and there's so much grit and grind and perseverance between ups and downs , emotions from all the different gamuts that you can possibly imagine that we could dive into from your story today . So I'm really excited , looking forward to seeing where the Lord directs this conversation , but it really is an honor to have you with us in our Armchair . Authentic family .

Trip 3:24

Oh man , I appreciate that . That was quite the introduction . The relationship does go back , including our relationship and getting to know you as well , Justin , in the midst of that .

Justin 3:34

Tripp , I think one of the main times we've probably met each other even before this . But what really comes to my mind too , other than probably just some normal calls , with us both doing ministry things with our churches I remember when there was a particular conference and we referenced this in a previous podcast Grow Conference , and you and Rhett had really just gotten acquainted and began hanging out with each other and you guys came in town for the Grow Conference and here's what I remember . It wasn't even what was talked about that night , but there was some point at the end of the conference where we have kind of a hangout time . You and your team that you brought from your church y'all are sitting outside this cafe , outside the church . Y'all basically took over the table .

Justin 4:17

I don't know how y'all got that table because there are thousands of people there , but y'all basically owned that table . It seemed like six to eight of you and Rhett was hanging out with you and so obviously that that was such a fun hang . I just remember sitting down for about an hour and just thinking to myself . You know , first I love when I get to see the whole family dynamic and when you see someone like you who is clearly y'all were just it was nonstop laughs , but just the bond that you had as your team and I just thought that was really cool 10 years .

Trip 4:47

The last 10 years has felt like you know , a small eternity in a lot of ways .

Trip 4:52

So much has transpired to hear the resume get read in front of you , which mine is not . You know it's not what a lot of people's are . You know being in a small town , usa , and you know goals just look different here , and mine have always been a little bit different . I just haven't aspired to do certain things that a lot of other church planning young pastors have in mind to do , and so it's just put me on a different path of finding influence . What kind of audience I wanted in front of me . That has really shaped and molded a lot of the decisions that we've made , the paths that we've chosen over the last few years .

Trip 5:38

Like anybody else in church planning culture , there are certain things that people almost expect you want to do .

Trip 5:46

There's a part of you that kind of feels like maybe you're a little broken for not wanting to do those things , or that you're just not dreaming big enough or you're abbreviating what God wants to do with your potential .

Trip 5:59

You know those kind of thoughts and I've kind of battled that and there have been moments , you know there's been those moments where it's like , oh well , maybe we need to move to a big city where there's big money and big people and you know big influence and big , big , you know , because big is always better , even though we would sit here in a conversation and say , no , that's not true . It's amazing that I think that's part of that fleshirit battle . It's constantly at war within us because we know the truth , we know what matters and yet we still try to justify the flesh and those desires . I mean , I could spend an entire podcast just talking about this , because I think this is such a big deal , you know , but thinking about the potential influence that Jesus had and what he chose to do with it , with just a few , and then to leave the earth with even fewer than he had grown to at some point , yeah , and trusting it into their care , I mean , my goodness , it's like who am I .

Rhett 6:58

So let's talk about your church planning journey for a minute , because I know that we do have people listening that are part of ministry and there might be some couples who are praying about planning a church .

Rhett 7:10

And it's interesting because what I'm hearing you say is that , whether it's spoken or unspoken , there is a pressure in our culture today of expectations , whether it , you know , label it , growth ABC got a building in three years running three or 400 people by four years , a thousand at a you know four or five years . You know there's these expectations because when I'm when I'm hearing you say you know , yeah , we could have gone to a big city , but God called us to Wautumka , elmore County , which , if I'm not mistaken , how many people ? 85000 people in the entire county , 90000 in the county , 90000 people in the county , 90,000 people in the county . And so when you think about going back to the decision of , hey , god is birthing in us a vision for a life-giving church for our community , and it's not in Atlanta , it's not in the next big city , it's in Little Wetumpka , alabama , talk us through that decision what God was birthing and why in the world did you even say yes to taking that step and doing that Walk us through that moment of that decision-making process .

Trip 8:09

At the time I was in what was the United Methodist Church and that was kind of my ministry background youth ministry , student ministry for 11 years . During that time I was like anybody else . I would listen to other pastors and other churches and watch what they're doing , go to conferences and learn as much as I could . And you know , I'm 50 years old now , so young guys doing the very same thing . Now in today's world , you just have so much access . Well , access just felt . You know it was started . We were kind of on the cusp of access , of being able to listen to and see and hear and learn what other people are doing . But if you weren't in those circles then you really didn't hear about it a lot . And so honestly , being in the United Methodist Church , I know church planting is a thing . Obviously they plant new churches . I never heard it talked about . Just the term church planter was not in my vocabulary , nor was it something I'd ever been a part of or experienced or thought I ever wanted to do . I knew graduating .

Trip 9:12

I went to Asbury Theological Seminary in Wilmore , kentucky . I graduated there in 2001 , knowing that I didn't ever want to lead a church or to be a student pastor . I just knew those two things . I graduated with a degree in to be a student pastor . I just knew those two things . I graduated with a degree in world missions and evangelism . My heart has always been cross-cultural , whatever that looked like , whether that was overseas or here , I just wanted to reach people on their terms . That was my thinking . And then I came out and reality struck and I had kids , you know , as I graduated from seminary , and so we made the decision to get a job , move near family and then figure out what to do . Of course , youth pastor jobs are generally a dime a dozen Ended up in student ministry back in what was kind of comfortable , the United Methodist Church . I did that , not really being something that I just really just was passionate about and wanted to do , but what I was passionate about was doing things well , doing things with excellence , and so I was always learning and trying to do things better and I was trying to do the trickle-up , lead-up , you know , with staff and you know I mean we didn't go on retreats . There were just things like that seem obvious in our world now , like ARC world especially , and , you know , church planning world , the things that seem so normal now like we're just not at all . They just weren't things that we did .

Trip 10:38

I'd listened to a lot to Andy Stanley and North Point Church . They launched in 95 and I 95 , and I was already listening to them . Some of my family was actually a part of their launch team . It was actually his teaching style and still is in a lot of ways today . But for years and years the way that Andy taught is really what helped solidify faith for me . I grew up in a Christian home . I don't remember the day that I accepted Jesus , like that was just . I just grew into that . I made kind of an official declaration of that when I was around 13 . But it was already stuff that I just knew and I was confident and believed right Ministry wasn't even on the radar . That was actually something that my mom kind of continued to suggest to me as I was floundering at Auburn University .

Rhett 11:30

As every loving mother wants to do .

Trip 11:35

Oh man , she would just say what about ministry , what about ministry ? And literally at that point , even then , I was just like .

Trip 11:40

I don't want to be a pastor Gross , that was not something , because all I had seen was stale is the word that comes to mind , but I don't necessarily want to use that word . Kid , that's what it felt like . I knew I needed to go to church . I knew I wanted to be there . I knew I believed in a heavenly father . I knew that Jesus was my savior . I knew those things but I didn't really care for church . So that was kind of my background and upbringing , even though I was still there , you know , sunday morning , sunday night , wednesday night , and then a couple of times scattered in between

Navigating Vision and Church Planting

Trip 12:27

.

Trip 12:27

So you fast forward . You know I graduate , and I graduate from seminary and I end up in student ministry for 11 years . But during that season of finding my feet , figuring out what ministry means , how do you do it ? I mean I remember calling friends who had become student pastors before me and I was like , what do I do ? Like is there a book on how to do this ? I don't have . Like I didn't do this in seminary , like I've just got some classes under my belt in cross-cultural ministry stuff , but I don't like , what do I do on Wednesday ? Like , I remember thinking that , like it just was .

Trip 13:07

It was still kind of foreign to me , but all the while learning leadership stuff and things that felt like I wanted to be a part of , but I didn't really even know what that was . I would go to Orange Conference , I would go to Drive Conference at North Point , somehow . During all of that I had never heard of Church of the Highlands or ARC . I don't know how , but again , when you're kind of in your bubble you don't hear about certain things . Well , I had grown . So I read the book Visioneering sometime in the early or like mid to late 2000 2000 , I don't know what you call those numbers .

Justin 13:50

You know the the 0809s , you know somewhere in there .

Trip 13:54

Oh yeah , good years the o's the double o's the double o ears like I don't know yeah , it's so funny so somewhere in there I read , read the book Visioneering Andy Stanley wrote that he coined that word and really it was a walk through the book of Nehemiah , through that journey , especially the first part of it , how you begin to feel like there's vision inside of you , which is essentially knowing that there is something that needs to happen or there is something that needs to be done that isn't already happening , and you feel that burden . And then another pastor spoke to me during that same period of time and he said vision is always something you run towards , not away from , and that was significant for me . I've told that to a million people since then . That's really good .

Trip 14:56

Because a lot of people , even leaders and well-meaning again , that's really good that Ark tries to filter out and to you know , filter out and figure out . You know who is just running away from something . You don't want a church split to be the beginning of your church plant Right Like that generally is unhealthy , generally comes with a good bit of baggage . There was a season where I thought maybe that would have been something . I was just running like I just don't want to . I don't want to do this anymore . I don't want to be a part of this . I don't want to do this anymore . I don't want to be a part of this . I don't want to . I want to be a part of something that where we're really a family and we're doing this together and it's like everything's integrated , from kids' ministry to senior citizens , we're doing ministry together . It's like a seamless thing .

Trip 15:40

I had those thoughts but I didn't know where they were really coming from . I didn't know what it could possibly even look like , but it kind of came to a head and there was a season where there was a small group of us that were meeting together and we all shared a similar kind of burden for something . We didn't know what , because it wasn't even about church . I'm telling you it wasn't . Let's go start another church . We had an alignment in vision and we wanted to do something , but we didn't know what that was . The idea of start a church just kind of got tossed out there not from me , because again , I'm not going to lead a church Preaching every week , good Lord , like that just sounded so terrible to me and really I think it was a lot to do .

Trip 16:25

Honestly , it was probably a lot to do with just insecurities . You know , to come into that kind of scrutiny every single week , week in , week out , people are listening and they're whining and they're like you know , you didn't say this right or I don't know about this , or like I just didn't . You know , I didn't want to be a part of that , but it was more of fear . When the church idea popped up , I was like , okay , a church or a church service or just providing a midweek something , yeah , I get it . So something that reaches people , that reaches unchurched , irreligious , de-churched whatever you want to call it people who didn't want to be a part of the church , but maybe they are okay with God and having spiritual conversations . Some of that was interesting to me and it was cross-cultural , I think that was some of that in me . It was like , oh yeah , that's what I was kind of feeling like I was latching on to , but then I was like , so who's going to do that ? Who's going to pastor that ?

Trip 17:27

Like I'm looking around the room , you know , and they're like you .

Trip 17:30

No way , wow . And that went on for a little while . And I kind of kid with these people now , you know , and I did at some point that y'all , y'all , y'all got me into this , y'all talked me into this , but but it wasn't , it was . It was God it was , and he used providential relationships to steer me in this direction . That that's what happened and it was for that season and that time and it's something I wouldn't have done without them .

Trip 18:07

I'm somebody who doesn't want to reinvent the wheel . I like being creative , but I like just kind of taking something and retooling and rebranding and kind of spinning it . You know I'm not good with a blank sheet of paper . I was like , how do we do that ? Surely there's a way to do that . You know there's help out there and I knew I didn't want it to be United Methodist , I didn't want it to be under that umbrella and for a lot of reasons , but primarily at that point it was because of just church polity , governance , the way you have to govern things and structure things , and that was kind of part of the reason I'd become disgruntled to begin with . You know , it was like all the hoops you have to jump through just to make a decision , you know , and to get things done . I was like I want to jump in a speedboat , like I don't want to get back in the Titanic , like I want to go . We started looking around . The only thing I knew about was North Point Strategic Partners and I didn't really even know what that was . North Point Strategic Partners , and I didn't really even know what that was . And so I made some phone calls when we had kind of made that decision .

Trip 19:09

Well , literally we made the decision . We went and sat with our current leadership at the church where we were serving , told them what we wanted to do . We wanted to be upfront , we wanted to be open-handed about it and we wanted their support . As much as we could Not financial , we made it real clear we're not going to take anybody with us other than the people in this room . There were six of us , three couples . We'll be here for as long as you want us to be . We'll do whatever kind of transitions you want , all of those things . We wanted to be as healthy as possible because we're planning on doing this right here . But we tell them that a month later we've kind of moved the ball down the field . I call up North Point Strategic Partner stuff . I find that you know , I figure out they had just pulled the plug on the whole system because some leadership turnover , some high up leadership turnover , and they were literally going to take like a year off from doing anything and they were going to revamp the whole thing . Now what ?

Rhett 20:04

Yeah .

Trip 20:05

I guess this isn't happening . That's the only thing I'm familiar with , that that thinks like , like I know they think like I do , so then I literally got on the internet and just started searching I'm not kidding and I came across arc . I came across the website and this was like the very old version of it . Still , it was all the original videos with Pastor Billy and Pastor Chris and I'm telling you , I watched through those videos I think there were eight and I was like I was ready to storm the gates of hell . I'm not kidding .

Trip 20:45

I couldn't believe there was a system , a systematic approach to everything that I was thinking like , to things that were on my heart , and I thought it was like , dear God , I feel so much better . Now everybody's heard of ARC and there's lots of other organizations and church planning associations and that kind of thing , but this is the only thing I'd heard of that was remotely similar to what I wanted to do and it got me excited . And then I'm reading through the Statement of Faith and I'm reading through it and I'm like this all lines up Like , oh my goodness , these are pretty conservative , evangelical , bible-believing Christians who love Jesus and love the lost , like passionate about lost people . That's when I first heard about Church of the Highlands . Don't ask me how that was , since Rhett was clearly already in Montgomery , which is 15 minutes from me , serving at a new campus for Church of the Highlands in Montgomery , and I'm like I don't know how I missed this memo , but I'm telling you , I was in such a bubble . It was a breath of fresh air . In so many ways it really was . And then I read Pastor Chris's book Fresh Air and I was like this is it . This is what I want to do . I don't know how I'm going to do it .

Trip 22:05

I'm really scared , yeah , about preaching every week . I'm , I'm , I'm scared Like I'm just being real honest with you I'm . I'm scared of what ? Of the , the , the glass house kind of thing , the level of scrutiny that our family is going to come under . I've adjusted to those things . I still don't like it because it's just a reality , but I just decided that I was going to trust God's hand in his favor in the process . If this is vision and I felt like it felt undeniable at that point because this had been stirring for several years , and I guess what kind of settled it for me is that this isn't something I asked for . I didn't want this . I wasn't looking for it , I wasn't trying to be the man , so I stepped out and we did it . We launched September 29 , 2013 .

Rhett 23:03

We've been portable ever since . It's interesting how God began to birth something in you and I like what you said about vision . Vision is running towards something , not away from something , and it wasn't as if you were trying to run from things , but God was stirring in something in you and it seems to me , like you were , like anybody else , anybody like you know , you weren't looking at it from the point and going to do this , and it's going to be me . We're going to make a name , all for the glory of god and let's go . But it was more a place from reality , of insecurities . Uh , humanity fearful . What are people going to think ? I don't want to be in a position . I know what it takes to like have to speak every sunday . I don't want that . But , like god , if nobody else is willing to do this , god , god , if you can use anything , you can use me and you've humbled yourself and put yourself in a place , not out of pride or arrogance or ego , but out of submitting to God in obedience , to say Lord , you know , here I am and I'll do this for your glory , for your honor , because I see a need and we want to meet that need , to reach the lost in our community and I love what you said about trying to connect with people who , not to try to reinvent the wheel , but to take systems and processes and apply your vision , your personality , your thumbprint to that and make it your own in your community . And I know you won't say this , but incredible launch

Navigating Church Building Transitions

Rhett 24:21

.

Rhett 24:21

I wasn't there , but I heard through the grapevine of being on staff at Highland , seeing all the billboards for Ridge Church driving along my way to the house , and I was like man , let's go . And then , a year later , I found myself connecting with you , walking through the doors and seeing something that was birthed out of some conversation and out of just you know , something that wasn't . That now is , and I'm seeing all these people and you're a phenomenal communicator and I'm just thrilled . I mean Rich Church . You guys have gone through some seasons and now you're 11 years in and you're about to get into your first building , which I know you would have happened six , seven years ago . And so now you're at a place if you fast forward , there's a lot of in between . You're getting ready to get into a new building in Latumka . Talk to me a little bit about that , really quick .

Trip 25:08

This is that flesh spirit thing , you know . There's that flesh part of you that's just like so desires to be in a building . And then there's that spirit part of you that's like you don't need a building , you know and so , and even that can become a bit of a humble brag at some point . You know , for us it just was not like it , just it wasn't feasible . Like we were healthy the very first month after we launched . We made budget , like we were , like our income has been great , you know , from the beginning , and giving has been healthy , and so those have been there , but just the cost , it just didn't feel prudent to . You know , try to force our way into a building when we were , you know , we were meeting in the YMCA and we were paying very little for our space . Let's just take our time , let's grow this thing and we'll sock away reserves and all of that . And it just was slow . And I know there's a bunch of people who are listening to this and that is the reality for most . Sometimes , you know , churches like ours run into crazy circumstances and somebody gives them a building or gives them land to build on or something crazy happens . But that did not happen for us that had been awesome . We were praying for that , but that didn't happen . And so it was like every year , every year , every year , it was just like surely , by five years , we'll be in a building , surely , by 10 years we'll be in a building . We finally just said I guess we're just going to have to push forward with something .

Trip 26:46

This is something that's hard to explain , it's hard to decide , like , we all have our reasons why there weren't enough people here on such and such . Oh well , it was because it rained , you know . Oh , the weather's bad , that's why nobody was here . Oh , it's because , you know , the games were on . Oh , it's because of the Olympics . Oh yeah , the olympics , like pastors , have every reason in the world . Yeah , why attendance was the way it was . I mean , that's just , it's what we do . We're trying to figure out why I want anybody here . Why was ? Why ? We're a whole bunch of people here and there's general , you know , ebbs and flows that we can generally count on . Yeah , you know , getting back into school or starting the year off , right , those are kind of general things Easter , christmas , but outside of that it's like it felt hard to explain . You know , it's like I don't know like why and for us , we made the move into the high school where we are currently in 2017 .

Trip 27:37

So we met at the Y for four years . It was very small . There wasn't enough room . We had the big gym , which we had , plenty of room for worship , plenty of room for parking . We only had three rooms for kids ministry and when you have 350 people showing up on a Sunday between two services , that's a lot of kids in three rooms , and so we had to move . The high school opened up to us . Finally . I know this is normal stuff out in Texas and Atlanta and Nashville and Florida , but here we're the first church ever meet in a public high school in this county .

Trip 28:18

For sure , we found favor , we moved in and then we were thinking this is it because we've got plenty of classrooms , huge parking lot and a big room to meet in ? The one thing that lacked was lobby . There was no space for people to feel comfortable , to hang out and to feel like there was community there . Instead , it feels like you're kind of being pushed out the door . We didn't think that was going to be that big a deal , because it was really our only other option outside of buying something that had the three big things . You know , yeah , parking , kids worship this , was it . Well , the transition's always hard , whether it's a positive , you know , step , or it's not , like it's hard . People get adjusted to even crummy situations and they want to go back to Egypt . You know , that's just the way it goes .

Trip 29:09

And so a lot of people left , you know , even when we moved into the high school and everybody knew that this was a necessary move , and so there was just that . Oh you know , we lost that momentum , that energy and that hurt and I went through a really dark season that year . That energy and that hurt , and I went through a really dark season that year . Very much burnout , didn't know I was trying to do on my own as far as , like , the big move back into the high school was like starting over .

Rhett 29:34

So at year four you've been blowing and going at the YMCA . You know busting at the seams for what the YMCA could do and you know capacity if you will .

Trip 29:43

Very much at capacity Beyond it .

Rhett 29:45

Yeah , could do , and you know capacity if you will Very much at capacity beyond it . Yeah , moving into the high school should have been a momentum shift to even , you know , meet the capacity demand if you will open up more opportunity for the families to feel a little bit more comfortable missing out on lobby space . But yet you're going through a season of what I hearing you say burnout , and I know I've walked this road with you as well as you've walked roads with me . So if that's something you're comfortable getting into , we sure would love to help people with that , because it is absolutely a truth for pastors , for leaders , for husbands , for wives .

Trip 30:16

You know you're transitioning out of portable to portable . So I think that in small town there are just some different expectations that people have of not being a real church . I mean , we've heard all kinds of things . You know , like man , we can't wait to visit y'all one day when y'all get in a building . I can't . I literally could not even come up with a number of times that I've heard that , like , we knew that was going to be , like that's a lateral move . It felt like , even though for me personally , it felt like it was going to be a step up , like you know , because we had some things that we didn't have before . It's going to alleviate some of the issues , but instead because I remember Pastor Chris talking about this kind of thing is that any transition , even into a brand new building that's yours , you're going to have some fall off because it's new . It feels different . There's culture shock , you know , and so it's like , oh , you know , this isn't what we expected . We're going to go try it .

Trip 31:14

And then anybody that was kind of riding the fence always uses generally I won't say always generally uses those kind of seasons and opportunities to just go and leave , and so that happened . So it was like this season of just unbelievable busyness . I did too much of it myself . I mean , I was literally . I tell people this I was literally the one walking through the parking lot at the high school trying to figure out how it was going to be laid out and how we were going to do flow and how it was going to . You know how we were going to get guests in and they're going to park here and we're going to put a sign here , we're going to set up combs here and there's going to be flags here , to that kind of detail . I was the one . I was still the one doing that four years in . But it was because , like , who else is going to do it ? Like that's kind of my brain . You know , this big thing . We're super excited , a lot of people there , and then two months in , people just start disappearing . Wow , and it was a pretty vast . You know , there was , there was a large number of people , large enough that we felt it and that's very defeating .

Trip 32:17

And it got dark for me real fast and there was just some unhealth that I was unaware of . I wasn't hearing a lot about burnout and protecting yourself and it was all mental , it was emotional , it was in my head , but the way I described it to my wife is that I just felt numb . I literally felt numb . She knew I was going through it , right , like I was really having a hard time . And she finally forced me to have a conversation about it because I'm , like , I'd rather isolate . You know , it's terrible , like terrible decision to self-isolate when you're having dark thoughts and I'm still learning this , like this is very hard for me . I have to choose to not do this , but she forced me , you know .

Trip 32:58

She asked me , she said what is it that you do get excited about ? What brings you the most joy right now ? And my answer , my immediate answer , was when anything comes to an end , when a Sunday morning comes to an end , when a meeting comes to an end , when a prayer meeting , a staff meeting , an event , anytime it is over , that's when I feel good Wow , yeah . Yeah , that's pretty miserable , because Sunday comes every single week and so I felt trapped . This isn't going to ever change . I don't know that I want to do this . You know , is this what I'm doing in 30 years ? I don't want to do this . And it was like there was no end in sight .

Rhett 33:39

Hey guys , want to jump in on this conversation real quick and remind you if you haven't rated and reviewed the podcast . Could you take some time to do that , man ? It really is an encouragement to Justin and I and , more than that , it is a great way that we can serve those who aren't on this journey yet . Please follow us on Instagram or Facebook at Armchair Authentic , or even on X at Armchair Auth Pod . That's Armchair A-U-T-H-P-O-D .

Navigating Challenges of Church Ownership

Rhett 34:07

Now back to the conversation .

Trip 34:08

So I started seeing a therapist , which I should have been doing all along , and we even worked out some medication which I never thought was a need or necessary , but I'd never felt the way I felt and I'm telling you within a couple of months . I mean it pulled me out of a hole , along with other things , but that was definitely a part of the package Because at that point , like doing my quiet time , spending time with the Lord , I'm praying , I'm leading , I'm doing all of the things , but I can't figure out how to make this go away . I got through that season but it was a slow , slow process over the course of a year and it was the following year that I ended up at Refuge in Montana and , for the first time in my arc , my association of related churches you know where ? Don't do life alone , this is your tribe . When I was on that trip , it was the first time that I felt seen by people in that world . We're not the big name , we're not the person on the stage at our conference , we're not the ones writing books , and I felt like nobody else was in this world , that was having to do it the way I was doing it and I found that not to be the case , and so did they , and I made friendships on that trip that I still have to this day .

Trip 35:37

We communicate often , usually weekly , and it was like , okay , I'm not the only one , I can do this , I'm not crazy . Things got much better . They were much improved . In the meantime , in the interim , there's lots of other things going on . Covid was probably the next big thing that kind of put a damper on everybody's world , but once again ours as a church . We purchased the building . We were able to pay cash for it , but this was a dump . This wasn't like we purchased a church building and we can move in the next week . We purchased a church building that we could pay cash for , but that was going to need a couple of million dollars worth of retrofitting and renovation .

Rhett 36:26

Which is still cheaper in the long run than having to build everything from scratch .

Trip 36:30

Oh , my goodness . Especially post-COVID right Everything so well , yeah . So we signed on that building and it became ours at the end of January of 2020 .

Rhett 36:45

Praise the Lord .

Trip 36:47

Yeah , I know right , oh , man we already had architectural plans drawn , we had price estimates . And then quarantine yeah , shut it down . Everything shut down . Yeah , we didn't know what I mean . Come on , every church leader in the country knows exactly what I'm talking about . You weren't real sure what things were going to look like . Later , it felt like there were no guarantees of anything . Absolutely , life is never going to look the same . I remember feeling it .

Trip 37:21

I remember that and then the preaching , remember this was well , we don't need to go back to normal anyway , let's don't go back to normal , let's do you know .

Rhett 37:32

I hear you just to put a pin in that right there , man . Like when leading one life during that season , it was amazing how many professional people came out of the woodwork to tell everybody how to get through a world crisis like we were dealing with .

Justin 37:47

Like all the podcast here's what you need to do .

Rhett 37:48

You need to do I'm like I'm like bro , you don't know . None of you have lived through this . I appreciate what you're trying to do , but can we just all agree that this is crazy , unless we just need to slow ?

Trip 37:58

down . Nobody really trusted anybody . No , no , nobody did , because nobody had been through it before .

Justin 38:04

The influencers . They just needed to be needed , so we needed to listen to them .

Rhett 38:08

Yeah , it was like we're losing grip of our influence and we've got to be able to , you know , be the ones that know what to do here . I'm like guys , you don't , you don't know squat . I mean I'm being trying to honor you here , but I feel you , yeah , I mean that just adds insult to injury , I guess is what people would say of the world .

Trip 38:30

But just pain upon pain and tough , because it wasn't just the fact that it shut down , it's the fact that so by 2020 , we're seven years in and we just bought a building . So there was a little bit of hope . Yeah . There was a little bit of oh my goodness , like we're moving forward . Yeah , there was a little bit of oh my goodness , like we're moving forward . And then we got you know our new price estimates six months into quarantine .

Rhett 38:50

Yeah , that's when prices started to skyrocket , because lumber and everything .

Trip 39:02

And it was up by by double . Yeah Well , guess what ? We were already trying to figure out how we were going to afford it pre-COVID now we knew we couldn't like we can't do this .

Trip 39:07

We can't do this . Now we own a trash building and this wasn't like well , man , just get in there and tear down some walls and set up some metal chairs . No , we're talking like the roof had been lifted off of this thing and there was mold everywhere . Like this was that you couldn't go in this building . Like there was yeah tons that had to be done . Yeah so , but we knew that and we were fine with that's why we got a good price on it well , also people that aren't unaware of what tomca in that area .

Rhett 39:35

There's not a lot to choose from without building building from scratch on land right , and so you you're having to make the most of what is in your area and steward that the best you can . And you guys still made the right decision . It just didn't feel like it at the time . We did , yeah , we did .

Trip 39:49

Yeah , but then it was , and everybody , every leader , again understands what we were feeling . Because here we are , like we're apprehensive . You know it's like what should we be doing ? What should we get into a you know upside down in debt ? You know some kind of mortgage situation that we are hoping to be able to afford , but we're not confident we can afford . You know it's like , oh , but statistically , when you move into a building , you know you're going to double within a year and I'm like I don't trust that anymore . Like I like maybe . Yeah .

Trip 40:28

But I'm not counting , I can't count on that . So we're just like in super-duper limbo and guess what ? So is everybody else in the church . You've got your committed . Few who are like are gonna . You know they're ride or die , but most people aren't and they're like I don't trust that y'all are ever going to be in a building . You've said that before and there continues to be reasons that you're not .

Trip 40:50

Now at this point , you know , with what happened when we moved into the high school and then going through quarantine and people staying home and all of that stuff , we felt that more than any , you know , a big church can experience that and you see it , but it doesn't hurt like as much , like I say that loosely , like I know there's always there's , there's hurt , but it didn't necessarily hurt your pocketbook like the way it did us , unfortunately , and we and we stayed pretty doggone , healthy . Honestly , we , you know there were . We were watching churches shut down left and right or having to come together or whatever , because they couldn't afford it . I mean we weren't in that boat , but we definitely were feeling it . We're still portable . We're still setting up and tearing down every single week . People know that New people show up because , I mean , there's always new faces , always New families showing up all the time . But I think they get there now and it's like I don't know that I want to do this . I think I like it , I feel like I could be a part of this , but people just don't start . Like it's weird , what happened ? Yeah , people don't serve like they did .

Trip 41:57

Yeah , you know , and I think we're starting to maybe turn a corner with that . We're starting to see more of that , but maybe it's because we're getting ready to move into a building . Maybe they're like oh , now that there's an end in sight , you know we're going to jump in . But we finally , just like , made a huge faith call and just about a year , year and a half ago , we just said we've got to do something .

Trip 42:19

We own this building and we don't know that anything's going to change . We've got to get out of the high school , we've got to get in a space that is ours and then see if something's going to happen . But we won't be able to see that until we make that move . That's how it has felt for a long time . And so we just said , well , we've got to do something . Well , we can't afford the whole deal . But let's just remodel some of it , let's fix up the outside , let's do a wing of it . You know , 4,000 square feet is just like kind of going to be our kids' space at some point . But we thought maybe we'll revamp it .

Rhett 42:53

So you're phasing this building is what I'm hearing you say .

Trip 42:56

Yeah , well , we just decided we'd phase it . But you know , with no real time frame , let's do what we think we can afford . Let's just set a number . Let's do what we think we can afford . Let's just set a number and then we'll try to just get . Like you know , it's just so backwards from what you , you , you watch other people . Yeah , can we talk about it ?

Rhett 43:12

Yeah , like , first of all , you know , so backwards from what other people do I mean ? Why , why , why is that ? What do you ? Why do you believe that is ? I mean like , why are you feeling that way ? Just what you see . Right , Because all we see is social media and all these highlight reels of which isn't real .

Trip 43:30

I mean it is maybe that's that flesh spirit thing . That's what I'm telling you , your spirit's telling you have faith , your process is the right process . God's going to lead you Make good decisions , which is what we were doing . All of those things us God's going to lead . You make good decisions , which is what we were doing . All of those things , yeah , the flesh part of you is constantly making comparisons . As much of a trap as I mean how many times have I taught ?

Trip 43:57

Yeah , you know it's a trap , don't get caught in comparison . You know you will always end up defeated , and yet that that flesh part of you just is like still telling you that it's what , it's what y'all are doing . You're looking at other podcasts , or when are we going to be like that podcast , or when are we going ?

Rhett 44:12

to get this many Like we just do it . It's human nature .

Trip 44:17

Like it is so human nature and it's awful yeah . It is a disaster because we are doing exactly what God wants us to do right now . I'm very confident in that .

Rhett 44:28

You know you guys are running when I say running the play . You're loving people , you're serving people . You're pointing people to Jesus . You're discipling people in small groups and relationships . You're in your community . You're doing outreach . You're giving . You're not just giving to receive , but you're also giving outward , not just to local but national and international type missions . Everything you're doing is what is is and you're doing it well .

Rhett 44:54

It's just your story is your story and your culture is your culture and your ground and soil is your soil and your . You know all of that is what it is and and it's real easy as a leader and what I'm hearing you say to be like man , like we're not doing enough , but it is like you're already doing , like you're . You're doing all that God's asked you to do . I mean you're being faithful with that and you're stewarding it well and life sucks . Man Like the , you know who would have thought after 2020 that people would not want to serve anymore and just sit back and stop going to church and just disconnect and isolate , and I mean like all the emotional things that psychologists are , I think are going to discover for years from now to look back and go .

Rhett 45:33

Here's the impact on society and how it even impacted the church , cause it's not like anything really changed except for what happened in the world . But like , but yeah , the the struggle was real for all churches across the board I know even for Highlands , for us , for everybody to try to whatever normal was . You know , everyone's trying to get back to normal . Like , I don't even think we even knew what normal , what a normal is , you know , I don't know .

Justin 45:57

It's really still confusing , justin , thoughts to that , yeah , I think that our goal for the podcast is we want to steward your story and this is the story that's

Embracing the Reality of Ministry

Justin 46:08

. I mean , this is relatable to the people who they're probably not going to be ever known , they're not going to really have a voice . You know , in this big mass , you know audience to speak this out , but yet that's not where the kingdom of God is . The kingdom of God , it operates . It's just like a mustard seed . It's this slow growth and you have these beautiful expressions , so you can't just peg what's God and what's not . But we as humans , like you said with comparison .

Justin 46:39

We tend to jump in and glorify the great stories and that's awesome . We need to be able to do that . We don't ever want to stop . I love a great story that has the enormity to it , Like that's a great thing if it's balanced with the complete truth and the whole picture is like you said a while ago .

Justin 46:59

The majority are these stories of having to have endurance , long-suffering , patience , all these , you know , where have we heard those words before ? Yeah , you know , and so it's the story of really what the Holy Spirit is trying to bring out of us . So when I hear your story yes , it's tough when you have to go back and go through all this stuff , but maybe it's through the lens , have to go back and go through all this stuff , but maybe it's through the lens of how I see ministry and life . I could listen to this stuff all day , because this is the reality of the conversations that I have with pastors and ministry leaders a huge percentage of the time , and that's why you're always having to encourage your spirit and find the relatable things of the Psalms . What even led David to write some of the poetry he was writing of how defeated it felt , and obviously he ended with the but God , which is amazing because everything ends with that . It's like God will intervene .

Trip 48:02

Writing that while sitting in a cave you know , not exactly a season of awesomeness , that's right .

Justin 48:08

He did that , yes , but he was open with the endurance that it was requiring . Like , how long , oh Lord ? And you see this , how long are we going to sing this song of really stepping into this promise that we don't see ? And in the Bible , we have the privilege to get to read the next paragraph , but we omit the fact that that paragraph separated 70 years or 150 years , and so God's promise is always perfect , but it's like our role of being called into ministry . It was never about how you started this talk . It was never about ministering to the masses , because Jesus could have quickly kept that crowd growing and growing , and then he would say something that would throw everything off and he would shrink his audience .

Trip 48:58

Eat my flesh and drink my blood .

Justin 49:01

They didn't like that message .

Trip 49:02

And then you can follow me and people were like I'm out .

Justin 49:11

I'm out Right Rightfully so Uncomfortable and we have success stories that happen and we can quickly buy in especially I can only speak on our Western Christianity . But we can buy into our Disney fairy tale of this picture perfect God vision , god dream how it's going to be . The fact is , we do have these visions and stories that God's writing and every person who's listening even if you're marketplace , that's ministry is life , no matter what you're doing . But your story doesn't look like Disney and we're trying to continue to make it look like Disney .

Justin 49:43

And then we take a mental break by logging online or turning on something and we think we're hyping ourself up to hear this communicator talk to us , but what we're really doing it's candy coated with Jesus in it . But when you actually bite the medicine , what you're doing is you're self-medicating on something that's not the Holy Spirit in your heart . And then it twists you a little bit because you're wondering why do I feel like this is not going the way it was supposed to go ? And meanwhile the Lord over here is saying I never said it was supposed to go that way . I just said I'm calling you to do this .

Justin 50:22

We had a previous podcast episode with our former pastor who had retired from ministry , and I love something he was saying . His dad , he said , was an atheist , but his dad came out to support one of his early church plants and there were , I mean , maybe 20 people there and his dad at least bought into the fact if you're going to be a pastor , let's be earthly successful and do it . And he said can't you do any better ? And I love the way he answered this and it's been on my mind ever since he said this . His answer to his dad was well , yeah , I can do better , but God told me to be here . Where I could go over there and be better . He called me to be here and this is where I'm going to be . So I'm not chasing better , I'm chasing what God's called me to do .

The Reality of Grit and Grind

Justin 51:11

And so when I hear your story those are my thoughts that there's a lot of people listening to this and you might feel like it's not the picture that you it's not , you're better . But what if God has you exactly where he has you ? Because in your desperation , in your what could seem to be your downtrodden , depressive state , in that moment , what if that's the only thing that might actually keep you in soul focus of my soul dependency is Jesus , and if it takes us back to that , isn't that really what the whole point is ? That we're pointing people to the answer to that which is Jesus , not the flash . That's all well and good , but that's not what our goal is to achieve .

Rhett 51:57

I think it's interesting how people look at Christianity , leadership , the church , being a lead pastor , planning a church , doing anything as an entrepreneur , as if , wow , it's like the most epic , it's going to be amazing , and like that's the pinnacle of being on a platform and speaking and have the microphone in front of you or that business and that revenue , whatever it might be for you , and they leave out all the in-between . It's like as if the highlight reel of whatever that is for you is the ultimate and that's what reality is . And it's so unrealistic because when you read the Bible , you read a lot about perseverance , you read a lot about suffering . You read a lot about just this , this idea of going through a process of development of character and being refined by fire . Going through this , you know , through droughts , through moments of just dryness , there's always life on the other side . But we always want to talk about the life on the other side , right , but there's something that God wants to do in us and through us , in the process of development , to put us in a place of when we're on the other side , whatever that is , that we're leading from , a place to help other people who are going through the same crap and hell that we went through ourselves because we're broken . We're humanity God never wanted us to be .

Rhett 53:14

I believe this I mean this might go against somebody's theology I think the ultimate fulfillment is heaven and God's presence together with him . And there's always going to be a little bit of emptiness or a side of us feeling like we've never really truly complete , you know , with doing things or whatever it might be on this side of heaven . Like that ultimate fulfillment is going to come when we see Jesus face to face , not to say we're not going to be fulfilled in our spirit , in our mind you know what I'm saying but like there's always going to be this longing for more , even walking with the Lord on this side of heaven . And so , hearing your story , I think what's so beautiful about this and I hope people are picking up on it is that it hasn't been all rainbows , unicorns and butterflies , this whole Disney approach , but it's been a story of grit and grind and obedience and faithfulness to the people .

Rhett 54:02

God's called you and it hasn't gone the way that you might have built up in your mind and whether or not other people are honest like you have been enough to open up to say I had dreams that it was going to look a little bit different , you know , but then I realized I'm right where God has me , with the people that he's called me to , and I went through that in one life too . It never looked like I wanted it to look like , but at the same time , it was exactly what it needed to look like , not only for the people , but for me and for our family and for everything that was happening . And there was moments that I was missing in that . And so what I'm hearing from you is like we were obedient , we were faithful , I was fearful , I was insecure .

Rhett 54:40

I walked into this with the reality of knowing that I can't do this . I've got to lean on God . You did that , and through that you've had ups , you've had downs , and we're only talking about the ups and downs of the church side . I mean , you're a dad of six , right ? Or are we seven now ? Help a brother out .

Trip 54:59

Six plus , six plus , I just call it six plus or maybe seven , it depends on the day I just call it .

Rhett 55:05

I call it six plus or maybe seven you know , depends on the day , yeah , and so as a dad of six plus , and then you know as a husband and then as a business owner with the business that you guys run the consignment furniture store there and the other things , and then on top of that , the you know , which we haven't really dove into yet , which is the camo preacher and the influencer side to yet which is the camo preacher and the influencer side , I mean all of those come with their own set of issues and the whole set which are all good and beautiful .

Rhett 55:30

But so you stack all of that and it's like man to see you standing still with your faith in God and loving people and serving people and staying true to this journey .

Balancing Ministry and Personal Life

Rhett 55:41

I think it's so inspiring to people to realize , especially young people who only have their eyes set on Instagram and what they're seeing from churches . It's all about platform , it's all about microphones , it's all about looking good and sounding good , the little soundbite with the one-liner man . I can do that and it's so much more than that and your character in your development as a man of God , as a husband , has been refined in fire and it's just inspiring to see you still moving forward and progressing .

Trip 56:17

As y'all have been talking . I think what I like about this is I'm not on the other side of anything .

Trip 56:21

Typically , stories that get told are the ones who maybe went through what I went through , but now they're five years down the road , man , they're blowing and going and that's when you hear the story and so then immediately people think so , as long as I go through whatever season I need to go through , then I'm going to get on the other side . But what if not ? Those are the stories that they get told . That's , that's the Instagram reel , that's the , that's the highlight , that's the , the one liner , the , you know sound bites . Those are the people who speak at conferences and they , you know , talk about this horrible , that . Those are the books that get written .

Trip 57:01

You don't write a book that's just in the middle of something because it doesn't seem to answer the question for people , like , they don't want to listen to you because you're not already where they envision , like , imagine or dream about being . What if the dream and reality look just like this , when that actually is what it is ? For most people ? That's right , like most people . Like , how many people do you know ? I mean , you hear these stories a lot of times . I mean , what about the pastor ? Y'all you know y'all's previous pastor , who's retired now ? You know what did that story look like ? What if it was just like this for 30 years ? Right , and that was the story .

Trip 57:36

His faithfulness his you know willingness to stay in the mundane and the grind , and that , for me , is , I think , what I've been grappling most with , and it's the reason that I've tried to stay pretty creative with what we do personally , even just ministry outside of Ridge Church .

Rhett 57:54

Yeah , so let's talk about that . Talk about Camo Preacher and the vision and the inception of Camo Preacher .

Trip 58:03

I went through a divorce back in 2006 . I had three kids from that marriage , my now wife Rebecca . We got married in 2009 through IVF . We have identical twin boys who are now 12 . That's a story in itself . Because we were going to lose them , we were told to abort . Going to lose them , we were told to abort to end the pregnancy numerous times because of a condition they had in utero , and we chose not to do that , and so there were some issues all through that pregnancy and then some beyond as well . They were born very premature and now they're beautiful young men of God , right . So now we're five . And then we went and we adopted a little girl with Down syndrome from China in 2016 . So you throw that in the mix . In the meantime , we just always have people living in our house . I don't really you know . Rhett and Linda can attest because they lived here forever .

Rhett 59:05

Did you actually ?

Trip 59:06

move in twice , or was it just ?

Rhett 59:07

No , it was just the one time when we were in transition between the Church of Mobile and launching in . Idaho we lived with you in your house . For at least a month it felt like before . We had the house there in Wetumpka .

Trip 59:19

Okay , yeah , and then that's just tip of the iceberg . We've had numerous people live in our homes . It's not like we sat down and had a conversation let's be really generous and nice , and blah , blah , blah . It just kind of happens . Somebody will show up and they're serving at the church and they're young and they're kind of in between and they can't figure out what to do and we're like come live with us for a little while . Some are multiple offenders and have lived with us two or three times for different seasons and reasons .

Trip 59:50

We added on to our house back when we launched the church and so there's a lot of room here , and for years we used that space as , because we didn't have a building , we used it as prayer meetings , band rehearsal , staff . It's where we would meet and do office stuff , everything for years . Now it's just part of our debt , and so my daughter and her husband and my grandchild they now live with us too . So there's actually 10 people physically living in our home , nine of those being full-time family people , and then one is we consider him part of our family now . He just turned 20 yesterday . He moved in with us a couple of years ago , so just through a difficult situation . He ended up moving in with us at 18 years old and he just didn't have anywhere to go , no job , he wasn't even done with high school yet , no real family to speak of and moved in with us and he has become really part of the family , so a lot of people living here . I say all that to say that there's already chaos Just kind of a controlled chaos here in our home .

Trip 1:01:07

The same year that we moved into the high school , we also started a business . It is a furniture consignment business . We bought a building . This is all personal , but the idea was business as mission . You know it was kind of an extension of ministry . Personally , because my wife is always doing resale and just constantly like there's just stuff , there's just stuff . You know she's always , she sees value in everything . And so we ended up starting that business called New Leaf , still running today , along with , at the same time , ebay , because sometimes the things that don't sell in the store do better on eBay and so that's booming as well . So that's kind of going on behind the scenes . And then , because we weren't busy enough in 2022 , and I guess it was kind of like on the end of the whole quarantine , feel like the whole COVID stuff , you know like it , just like things were kind of normalizing , if you will , or we were seeing what our new normal looked like .

Trip 1:02:16

And for several reasons that I've only learned in recent months for myself , I've kind of self discovered that I won't go into here . I didn't want to feel stuck like I did in 2017 . I wanted what was a guilty hobby of mine , which is being in the outdoors , hunting and fishing . I love to hunt , especially whitetail , but also hunt hogs , and we do all that around here . We just like enjoy being outside . I love the outdoors , I love doing , you know , taking adventures , going , you know , going to Colorado in just a few weeks , you know those . Those are just things I like to do , but always feel guilty about it . I also and I'll say this , I think this is really important I think , to our detriment , too many pastors make pastoring their job and their hobby .

Rhett 1:03:12

Yeah that's good .

Trip 1:03:13

And they think it's so and they justify it because it's ministry , yeah , and it's okay . And so , man , I don't know how you have hobby , because I get that all the time . You know it's like how do you , how are you able to go , how do you decide to you ? You know that you can just leave . And how do you know , because , like , that's why you're not growing , because you're not . You know , you're not there all the time , you're not . You know you're not pushing , and I'm thinking , well , that's just then , then it'll just have to be what it is , right . Yeah , I believe that's unhealthy . Yeah , somebody else may argue , I agree , I think it's extremely unhealthy , because what if that goes away ? You know what if something happens with the church ? What is that Like ? What do you have ? I think it's why you see so many people make some really poor decisions . Yep .

Trip 1:04:04

Morally , ethically , you know whatever , as church leaders and they , you know , six months later , months later , a year later , they've moved away but they've just started something new , another ministry , another church , and it's like because that's all they can imagine doing , yeah and you'll , you'll see , you've witnessed this , everybody . Listen to this , probably witness . You know , if you work in church world , you've seen it , you know probably firsthand . They generally are just taking the same problems with them into the next role , the next job , yeah , yeah , and it's an unhealthy situation .

Trip 1:04:35

Anyway , you know , it's why I love being a part of Barnabas which Paul Andrews started a few years back really , just like two or three years ago now because it's this very thing . There's a lot of this out there now , with , you know , retreats and refuge for pastors to be able to get away . There's a lot of this out there now , with , you know , retreats and refuge for pastors to be able to get away , and I love that . I love it because it is what . When I went in 2018 to refuge in Montana , it fed my soul in a way that I didn't know I needed , because there's no agenda there , yeah , and I'm like so what is that ? Why is that okay in those environments ? But it's only once a year . You know , like , why can't we build that into ? And that's what hunting is for me , that's what fishing is for me , that's that's , you know , going and doing archery and going shooting . You know , in my backyard , like that is an outlet for me .

Trip 1:05:22

So , then I'm thinking so why can't I do something with that post about it ? You know , cause I'm not a big social . I don't , don't . You know , before I started doing this little , the camo preacher thing , I just I not a fan of social media . You know , like I don't like to read it . I don't like I'm not the guy who gets caught up in reading . You know comment threads . You know , on controversial posts , like I hate that stuff . Yeah .

Trip 1:05:51

So I certainly don't engage in it . But then I was like , well , so maybe , maybe , what , if , what , if there's a mission field and that's cross-cultural ministry for me to be able to get on a level playing field with hunting and outdoor stuff in order to open a door into somebody's world and to be able to do ministry with them , not to be an influencer . I don't like social media , I don't care about doing those things . I don't want to go speak at a conference . Honestly , I don't want to get on there because I don't want the scrutiny , because it's extra scrutiny for me and I don't really like that . Again , didn't want that to be an excuse not to do it . So I was like , maybe I can do this . I feel like this is vision , you know , like this , there's some personal vision here , and so in 22 , I think it was , you know , halfway through 2022 , I just I made the decision . So the Camo Preacher on Instagram and Facebook started a YouTube channel at the same time where it all kind of feeds into the same thing and really most of it . As far as the YouTube stuff is just me hunting , it's just me recording and videoing my excursions and going out , and it's just , you know , because I love it .

Trip 1:07:05

But the doors that is open for me to be able to minister to people in ways that I wouldn't have otherwise has been so much fun . It's been invigorating , it's been exciting for me , one-on-one stuff , sitting in a blind together with a guy from New York that came down to hog hunt who won a giveaway that I did to come hunt hogs behind my house . So he and his wife and his son came and stayed in our home for three days not believers and we got to spend hours sitting in the blind together and it was unbelievable , talked about faith and Jesus and his love for him . And now we still communicate him . And and now he we still communicate . He follows me , he writes me , he loves what I'm doing , he sent . He sent flowers when my mom passed away a year ago . I mean , it's been like those are the like . I know it's just one person . Oh , so you did all that , like it's okay to go , do all that for one person . Uh , yeah .

Trip 1:08:07

Why is that a problem ? Like I know , I'm still being paid by my church and I'm still full-time and so that's not going anywhere and so I have responsibilities . There are probably seasons where I've got to dial it back a little bit , but it's okay for it to be there

Unleashing Mission Through Hobbies

Trip 1:08:27

. It is not in conflict or competition with church ministry , and that's where I think we run into it . So for me it's like hobby as mission . It's giving your hobby purpose instead of it being the hobby that just distracts you and takes you away from your family and your job in your job . That's where I felt guilty , but when I did the work to make it a mission field , to choose to do it that way somebody who is enjoying his hobbies , loving Jesus , sharing him when the time is right , when it's appropriate , when I feel prompted by the Holy Spirit why are more people not doing that ? I think we need to figure it out and we need to do a better job with that .

Justin 1:09:13

That's why I'm doing it . I think it's wonderful to have our hobbies and passions because , you know , if the whole mindset is , you know you go out and you're making disciples of all men . If we get caught up within our church walls , I mean we're missing the whole opportunity that's out there before us . I mean God gave you the wiring , he gave you the interest that you have .

Justin 1:09:34

Obviously , you know we're in a modern society now , so it's not like you have to go out and kill to eat like you used to . I mean it was a need that you actually had to go out and do it . But it's like you're getting to go out and there's a wiring other than what's intrinsically placed in all of us . There's design . You know I've heard it said by Pastor Chris . You know your design reveals your destiny and so you don't want to put yourself within these walls and I could say that even for people in their jobs , whatever it is , if you want to take it out to that where work is your life and your success , and you're stuck within your walls .

Justin 1:10:10

If you feel like there's nothing else out there , then you're really selling yourself short and you're not stewarding the story that God's wanting to write in you . Because right now you're getting to go do something that you're naturally good at or you've had this time to develop a craft or a skill , to do something that you enjoy , and you're around people who are outside the walls of what your normal world is right now and it's putting you around them to have some kind of conversation , to exchange some kind of just words , with human to human contact . And that's where the life change begins . And it's almost like it happens once again , as we said earlier , not in these mass gatherings , but it's these one-on-one Jesus talking to Nicodemus in the wee hours of the night With me .

Justin 1:11:02

I always picture sitting in a cafe , because that's more of my vibe sitting in a cafe with another person and having a talk for the next hour and 15 minutes and not being uncomfortable at all about what the person is going through .

Justin 1:11:15

But at the end of that meeting , all that I've recognized is wow , we have a connection more than we had , and that person just had an expression that maybe they've been cut off , not being able to have ever , because maybe it's been a taboo subject or , as you alluded to earlier , just when we were joking around , men not being able to show certain emotions . There's so many different areas that we can operate in and it's our talents , it's our abilities , it's our skills and it's usually if we do it right . I think it needs to be outside , whatever your four walls are , that you have created as your personal identity , and just maybe God uses these hobbies and these different things to get us outside of a false identity that we're forming in ourself and limiting what God's called us to actually do , as he's allowing us to steward and write this story that he asked us to take care of .

Trip 1:12:14

You know this is

Renewing Leadership Through Personal Interests

Trip 1:12:15

true . It's easy to get on the stage now . It's easy to deliver . I mean it's hard work , I get it . Giving birth to a sermon 52 times a year it is a burden , it is , but that's you and the Lord . And then you get on , you deliver it to a large group of people and then you're done . There's been no real intimate one-on-one type of connection there . That can be very intimidating and difficult for people in your church to find . That with you there will be a handful that are comfortable with that . You know you're in their small group , you're in their world , but it's not going to be very many , and so the idea that you can minister one-on-one to multiple people within your congregation is not likely . There are some with the charisma to do that . I'm not that person . But doing it outside of the church where people don't just know me as their pastor , I'm telling you it has opened up so many doors and it's been pretty exciting .

Trip 1:13:27

It's been a new breath of fresh air for me .

Justin 1:13:29

Well , it's adding value too . I don't think we realize the value we add to ourself .

Rhett 1:13:34

Yeah .

Justin 1:13:34

I just have this theory when you operate in something that's creativity and it has nothing to do with what you do , it's completely play . It's play to you . It's like today , this will have purpose behind it , tripp , when we release this . But the whole reason we even allowed ourselves to do a podcast . We weren't looking for another ministry outlet . We call it , we call this .

Justin 1:13:58

it's our hobby , with purpose , I mean that's why you'll hear a lot of episodes and it's me and Rhett just carrying on the same convo that we , as friends , were having in a Starbucks down the road before this podcast exists . But the byproduct is I'll come back into situations within what I do . So if that's what I do as a pastor , if that's what I do as a worship leader or a consultant , it's almost like by occupying these other spaces , I come back in and I'm almost filled up and I have more to give based on what I've also been doing in these other domains . So what you're doing with Camo Preacher , it's the same thing . It's giving you these hobby opportunities outside that .

Justin 1:14:46

It fills your tank with stuff that you really love , but it's also creating stories that I could imagine when you come and communicate to your congregation . You're now creating sermon material that is fresh and you're not reliving the same story that you're repackaging . That's fine if you do that , by the way , but it's always nice when I have something fresh from somebody and I realize , okay , good , they're still moving on and not living on a past success and trying to repackage . It is relevant for this 2024 . And what it's doing it's adding to your tool belt and it brings you life and I think it brings you longevity , helping you continue for the next years , the Lord willing , being steadfast . You're adding to your tool belt with all this and I think it's remarkable hearing what you're doing with Camo Preacher .

Trip 1:15:39

To be creative with my natural gifts and interest and I want other people to do that . You know , yeah , I want you to show up at church and I want you to worship with your church family and I want you to be involved in a small group and , to you know , even lead a small group at some point and to disciple one another . Yeah , I want you to do that . And then you've got your nine to five and you've got your kids and your family . I get that , but is there anything that you'd love to do ? How can you creatively perhaps use that as a way to reach people ? You've got an opportunity to steward well the time you have . That's right .

Rhett 1:16:14

See , I know there's a lot of people listening right now that my hope is that they're hearing that when you take care of your soul , you're able to take care of other people Like you can't , especially if you're a leader and a pastor you can easily talk yourself into , like you mentioned earlier , tripp , about oh , I can justify how I'm giving my life away in so many areas and that my hobby is the church , and it's like if you read the scripture , god never really called us to just be a church that exists within the walls . He called us to be the church . The church isn't for walls . The church is who we are and we're called to be an extension of Christ , his love to the community and to the people and to the passions and interests that he's put within us . All that , to say it kind of , is an ongoing conversation .

Rhett 1:16:59

For Justin and I is that learning how to steward your story , your interests , in a creative way to be able to reach people and ultimately to love people the way that God has loved us , so that we can point people to God's love , cause this is what we're a true fulfillment comes from . But if you're a leader , like you , shouldn't feel bad about having fun , like . I asked the pastor this the other day . I said man , what do you do for fun ? He's like uh , I guess the the fact that I can't tell you what I like to do for fun probably not a good thing . I said exactly . It's unhealthy , it's completely unhealthy .

Rhett 1:17:33

You're sick if you're not having fun . How can you pour out to other people if you're not being poured into ? Yes , God's word , yes prayer .

Rhett 1:17:41

Yes , worship , yes , relationship . You've got to be able to learn how to take care of yourself before you can take care of other people . You got to be able to learn how to take care of yourself before you can take care of other people , and I think the reason that you know I led to burnout and I can't speak for you is that I didn't take care of me very well . I didn't learn how to rest , and not like shut off and sleep . Rest , I mean like learn how to fill my soul with things that I actually enjoyed and that I loved to where then I could take care of my wife and take care of my son and take care of my family , because a healthy soul equals a healthy family and if you're a leader equals a healthy leader . If you're a pastor , a healthy pastor , which then it turns a healthy church . You've got to take care of your soul . You've got to sustain that , because this is not a sprint man , this is a marathon .

Trip 1:18:23

You know , going on a retreat once a year , doing something like that , that's part of it . That , something like that , that's part of it , that's part of it , that's helpful . But that's not enough , like , oh well , I mean , yeah , I mean I have a hobby , I play golf . I mean I go do that . You know I play a round of golf , you know , every few months and I'm like okay , no .

Trip 1:18:40

Like that's not what I mean , like you need something that is just you having fun once a week . You've got to be able to unplug a little bit . When do you hear the success story of the guy who doesn't have that ? The only people that you aspire to be who are like that are the ones who may be leading really large churches or big ministries and they're speaking at all the conferences and they're traveling all around and they're so oh that's . You know how can I do that ? And it's like those people are few and far between that have very healthy lifestyles and family life and good , healthy balance in their life that have figured it all out . There's so few I mean Billy Graham I can think of .

Trip 1:19:27

I've heard too many good things about how he actually managed his personal time and what mattered to him toward the end of his life and the way . You know I'm sure it wasn't perfect all along , but he clearly had some healthy boundaries in there somewhere . You know it's just like how many more often than not it's . You know those are the people that are writing books and they're traveling and they're da , da , da . Everybody knows who they are . And then everything comes to a screeching halt . Yeah , you know they something happened , yeah . Yet another scandal , yet another thing , yeah .

Rhett 1:20:06

I heard a leader say and I hope I don't botch this , but I heard a leader say one time , you know , I don't take a day off because Satan doesn't take a day off , and if he doesn't take a day off , and I'm not going to take a day off we got people to win for Jesus and I'm like , yeah , but when did the devil become our example ? Is that the one we're supposed to ?

Speaker 4 1:20:25

follow and look at and let that like that preaches , you know .

Rhett 1:20:31

Jesus , god himself and creation . Jesus himself always showed that there were times where he pulled away from people and he and for him , he liked being in gardens and he liked talking to the father and quiet places . For you it might be hunting , for you it might be fishing , might be the coffee house , might wherever . Whatever it might be , might be sewing , but , like Jesus , is our model and he's trying to teach us something . Whether you're a leader or a pastor or a single mother listening to this , you got to find ways to be able to take a moment and to pour into your soul and to get into that place where you're taking care of you so you can take care of your kids , you can take care of your family . God sees you , god cares , god loves you , and he's not asked you to carry this . He's asked you just to walk with him and allow him to carry these burdens . And his yoke is easy .

Rhett 1:21:20

I always read that I was like , yeah , this leading the church doesn't seem easy . This is hard . His burden

Spiritual Growth in Ordinary Moments

Rhett 1:21:25

is light . Well , if it's not light , you have to begin to ask yourself well , was Jesus lying about that or was he telling the truth ? No , I think there's truth in it , but we're just not allowing him to , to allow , you know , to lead with him and allow him to do that in us and to pour on us . And so we got to make time , we got to create those boundaries and and I love that you're doing it .

Rhett 1:21:43

It's inspirational . I mean you're making a difference and you're reaching people that would never walk through the door of a church .

Justin 1:21:49

You're a great example for just the entire pastoral community because , as you're talking , earlier on in our conversation , you begin to talk about the . We talked about long suffering and patient endurance , what you have had to walk through and what you're continuing to walk through , with the revelation of hey , what if that is the story . And so my encouragement for anyone who's listening I know it's what encourages my spirit and what challenges me is probably the better word is whatever you're doing , find those moments that require you to be just in some kind of silence , where it really is just you and the Lord , because he's speaking and he's going to want to continue to speak to whoever you are out there . But it's going to require some of these moments of quietness , and the problem with that is you can't have something to go self-medicate with , and the struggle is when you finally have that time to relax and be left with your thoughts and really more importantly , to get that open doorway into what God is speaking to you . You might try to go reach and medicate and listen to something else , even if it's good . And so to take that a step further , even as we're talking about busyness busyness even in the name of Jesus we can busy ourselves where there's no end and what it can actually do . It draws us away from the very words that God's wanting to speak to us , that he can only speak in quietness and trust , and it builds up in us that muscle not to go try to be what we're seeing explained to us , that we have to go become the highlight reels , but we actually get to draw into the calling that actually might be .

Justin 1:23:40

I've called you to this . Yes , you could go do something better over there , but I did not call you to better . I called you to this . And so I'm encouraged when I hear your story trip , because this is something that people right now they might be praying what are my next steps in life ? Or man , why does it seem like something ? What is wrong with me ? Why is something always on me ? And my encouragement is it might not be that anything is wrong with you . It might be . You're exactly where you're supposed to be . So maybe you just want to take a seat , get a piece of paper and a pen and just listen for a while , because God might want to speak to you in this very ordinary moment that you've learned to call life moment that you've learned to call life you know I definitely experienced God in those high moments and you know moments of worship where it's just like incredible and you've got 60,000 people singing the same song .

Trip 1:24:39

Those are awesome moments and maybe my proximity to my heavenly father , you know , grows in those moments . My faith in God grows on the opposite end of that spectrum , when things are just not going well and I choose to trust him anyway . That's when my faith grows . It's awesome to experience and that gives me some energy and some momentum . You know those big moments , but it's the mundane , it's the grind , it's the hurt , the pain , the misery . That's when faith grows .

Rhett 1:25:14

We have become the men that we are today because of what you just said Trusting God in the middle , in the moments , in the mundane , in the hard , in the refiner's fire , in the moments that aren't the epic , and that's where your faith is built .

Justin 1:25:28

And I love your heart for that too , trip , because you explain the spectrum of . There is that big arena , whatever that looks like . It might be 4,000 in a room , it might be a hundred , but it's that larger group , but then it's that intimate environment and to have that combination , and then in the middle it's that it's even those people you're just kind of doing life with your cohorts , but it's this , it's this spectrum of all of these colors coming together that really end up making us who we are . And I've seen the fruit from you just to even say this as we draw this to a close , because you know , trip , me and you were able to be two of the three overseers for One Life Church when Rhett went and planted that and I know for me , you and me have probably had other than just passing by .

Justin 1:26:15

We've probably , I would say , seven to eight meaningful where we've actually had conversations and you just getting to see all this that you're saying now is really cool , because this is my first time to get to hear a lot of this .

Justin 1:26:28

I know you and Rhett have this close friendship and y'all y'all are able to talk on this , but but as the audience listening , I love this story because these refining times that you're going through I got to hear some of the finished product because I would watch how you would lead some of those overseer meetings with me , you and Danny and it always came across to me in such maturity but I never knew your story and so when I hear what you've been through , it explains it , and my encouragement again to people listening is you might be in the toughest times but you might not realize the amazing development that's going on in your spirit , because there's a moment coming when people you're this tree that just seems to be planted , your leaves are always in season , but somebody else around you , there is a crisis coming their way and they need to seek refuge they're immediately going to the trees that have covering that can actually protect them , and God may be growing that tree in you right now in the season and in Tripp man .

Justin 1:27:38

I got to see the tree that he's grown in you all these years and it just speaks so much to your character and your integrity and the pastor that you are and , really more importantly , the person that you are , trip Healy .

Trip 1:27:51

Dude , I really appreciate that spiritually blushing I really am . I'm humbled by that . That's not a humble brag . I really do appreciate that very much .

Rhett 1:28:00

How can people get in touch with you as far as following you on social media , any outlets that you want , to anybody that might be listening ? To say hey , I had that camel , that Camo Preacher . What's up with that ? Yeah ?

Trip 1:28:10

literally anything . I mean , that's really what I tell people now is just to go there , because that's where I post . I'm not good at the personal stuff . My wife will do that for me occasionally . So literally the Camo Preacher , all one word , on all platforms . So even TikTok , I mean and I'm not a great TikToker , but I'll throw my reels and so I'll create it for like Instagram , and then I'll put it on there , but Instagram , facebook , even my YouTube channel , it's all the same at TheCamoPreacher , and then you can even send me an email , if you want TheCamoPreacher , at gmailcom .

Trip 1:28:49

I love that you guys are doing this . I really do , um , because this , what y'all are doing , is exactly what I was talking about . I remember when , when , uh , when , pastor ret was talking about this , um , but I remember him starting to talk . You know , man justin and I are talking about , you know , doing a podcast . You know , because , like , I want to do something , I want to you just do something a little out of the ordinary , get creative . And I was like , dude , please do that , that would be awesome . And you've , you've followed through with it and you're doing it well , with excellence , and I just I think it's gonna , I think it's going to . I think it's going to go a long way .

Teaser: Mr. Talkbox

Justin 1:29:30

On the next episode of Armchair Alpinic , the one and only Mr Talkbox . When I was touring with Toby Mac , you know even with NSYNC .

Mr. Talkbox 1:29:43

everything was given to me . Guys . I was living a superstar life , I was making money . All I did was wake up on a tour bus and I had a security guy . If I got off that bus , wherever I wanted to go , that security person would take me there . That's how crazy it was in that pop culture back then . It didn't take any faith to go out there and be a superstar . Everything's laid out for you , and to somebody that sounds like the dream . It is the dream .

Justin 1:30:10

Exactly .

Mr. Talkbox 1:30:11

Without God ? For sure it's the dream . I've never told this . We're about to get into some juicy stuff . Man , woo-hoo . I feel it , feel it , feel it , feel it , feel it , feel it , feel it , feel it . Thank you . Armchair Authentic .

Justin 1:30:28

Man . We're really looking forward to that episode ,

Reach Out To Us: Info@ArmchairAuthentic.com

Justin 1:30:32

but until then , we'd love to hear from you . You can reach out to us at info at armchairauthenticcom . We'll see you next week . Bye .