Clay Ramirez: 0:00

My son went in a cardiac arrest. He was nine days old and with just enough guts to say this. Heather and I grabbed hands right on the other side of the glass and we just said we, just right now, in the name of Jesus, we command death to leave and life to come in. And we just believed God for a miracle and about a total of 20 minutes he had been passed. And then man, life came in. A heartbeat came. They said come into the room. They were just weeping, and I remember, though, before I walked out of the hospital to go get some clothes for our family because we were going to be, life flighted, and I laughed and I said, devil, you don't know what you just did to me, and I just laughed, just like that.

Clay Ramirez: 0:43

Because of the cost of hotels. We had the opportunity, through the Ronald McDonald House, to stay in one of their homes that they have. We made our own sandwiches that day, sat down and my wife says, Clay, what do you think's next for us? And I said, Heather, I think we're supposed to plant a church.

Rhett: 1:12

Welcome back to another episode of the podcast with your friends Rhett and Justin, right here at Armchair Authentic, where it is our hope to steward our stories and even our relationships in a way that serve you, and today we're having a real conversation with our friend, clay Ramirez. Now, clay is not only a dear friend, he's a husband, a father of three, a church planter and the pastor of Believer's Church in Twin Falls, idaho. My friends, I'm telling you today you're not only going to be inspired, but you're going to be encouraged from a story of grit and grind, god's faithfulness and miraculous power of saving his son's life. His son was pronounced dead at nine days old and because of the power of prayer through he and his wife and the Ramirez family power of prayer through he and his wife and the Ramirez family his son was brought back to life. I'm telling you you do not want to miss this conversation Now. Before we jump into it, though, we always want to take a moment and say thank you to every single one of you who have taken the time to follow us on social media and even engage with us through comments.

Rhett: 2:22

If you haven't found us yet, you can follow us on Facebook or Instagram at Armchair Authentic. That's at Armchair Authentic. Or you can go over to X and find us at Armchair Auth Pod. That's Armchair Auth A-U-T-H-P-O-D. Now, to every single one of you who have taken the time to copy the link from your favorite podcast platform and have sent that to a friend man, that means so much to us. Thank you All right, friends, without further ado, our conversation with Clay Ramirez. You guys ready, here we go. Well, justin, it really is an honor to have a good friend of ours on the podcast today. And I say good friend, it's my second best friend in life and it's Clay Ramirez, lead pastor of Believers Church in Twin Falls, idaho, with us today in the studio via Riverside. We're grateful to have you, clay.

Clay Ramirez: 3:19

Oh man, it's my pleasure to be with you guys.

Justin: 3:21

My pleasure to be with you guys. Yeah, we've mentioned your name several times throughout all these episodes. That we've done because it's been so cool to see yours and Rhett's relationship grow and it's been encouraging to me because so much of our podcast really, if you break it down to what is Armchair Authentic about other than being authentic, it's all about relationships and the relationships that we forge and that God brings us and that we have to have to be successful. So what's been encouraging to me is seeing really strongly over the past three, four years but I guess you could even say longer since 2018, but, god, I've watched God unite you two as like brothers and even being able to mentor each other and pastoring one another in different seasons, and I'm so encouraged to even be on this podcast with you two.

Justin: 4:12

I feel like now I'm the friend who's with the two best friends and I'm trying to fit in a little bit, so, but obviously I love Rhett so much and to see how you guys have partnered in ministry together the past couple of years even more, it just I have such a special place for you in my heart, clay, and you're such I mean, you're just such a special person to me and I've learned about you You're somebody. You don't just talk it like, you back it up with your investment, whether it's financially. You're just even your life giving it to somebody and investing and spending time. You can always tell who's a real friend and who's not, because when your back's up against the wall, it's the people who are still there in your life, and so I just wanted to open up my portion of this Clay to honor you just the relationship that I've seen grow between you and Rhett over the past several years.

Clay Ramirez: 5:06

You're so kind man. It's easy for me to fall in love with somebody or love somebody well when they love where I am well, and you know the fact that Rhett came to Idaho and I kept hearing man you've got to meet Rhett.

Speaker 2: 5:23

You know everywhere I went.

Rhett: 5:24

Yeah, because, justin, you are the one that connected us. So, Justin is bearing the fruit of this. Like I mean, he was the person that planted the seed for us to connect.

Clay Ramirez: 5:32

This is how cool this is. I showed up to grow for my first time in Alabama with my little daughter, who was a freshman in high school.

Speaker 2: 5:44

This is Auburn right To come check out.

Clay Ramirez: 5:46

Yeah, auburn, she's my oldest and to check out Highlands College in the first person. We walked into the chapel there at the main campus and it was you and John Larson and you guys. I didn't even know who y'all were. Y'all were the kindest guys to us, just giving us direction. And that day, like I remember, I was like man, there's something about that guy, justin, you know. And and then you told me, oh, I've got a friend in.

Speaker 2: 6:17

Idaho.

Clay Ramirez: 6:19

You gotta meet Rhett, you know, yeah, and uh, from that point on, I mean it was, you know, I had heard about it, him in idaho, but I hadn't connected and we were trying to connect with multi pastors in in different settings and I know, but he wasn't available at those times or I wasn't even there at something you know. And then we finally met in idaho. It was the coolest thing really and so much has came from that. I remember he asked me to come and minister at his church and he's up there leading his team. You know selflessly had been setting up with his team and leading worship and, to be honest, I was like throwing a fit with God.

Speaker 2: 7:03

I said God, why didn't he come to my church? Why didn't he put us together at our church, you know, and we could do life together. And here's this man I mean, he's singing with his guts out and worshiping so well, and I was throwing a fit with God True story, I love this.

Clay Ramirez: 7:25

And then, uh, we, we just had a fun service together too, you know, because if I'm gonna preach we're gonna have a good time, and and so, uh, you know, for I was pouting with them after service, just jokingly, you know, but filling it inside, of course that's so funny, and uh, and then, from then on, I mean, I mean, yeah, really, from alabama on, it was like we're buddies, you know, yeah.

Rhett: 7:49

And God has a sense of humor too to see that. And here we are doing things together. And who would have dreamed or thought you know, I know you did, I didn't, but like here we are, you know I love it, it's awesome.

Justin: 8:00

I love it. It's just how God works and you know it was. It was a divine appointment. I you know I've met a lot of people but I can't I can't recall every instance, but I remember I mean that's vivid standing in the chapel I was preparing for what, me and John. We had two labs we were presenting the next day separately and we were getting our equipment hooked up and I just overheard you talking to somebody, and your daughter's with you too, and I hear the word Idaho and I'm extra sensitive to that word because that's where Rhett had just moved and that would have been July of 2018.

Justin: 8:36

Yeah, and so I just came up, I just kind of walked up to Clay after he was finished talking to somebody and, yeah, so we made that connection and I knew I had given you guys each other's number from that point and just kind of backed off. I didn't know if anything would happen or not, because sometimes, unfortunately, you meet somebody and they're threatened if they feel like someone's kind of in their territory. And what I'm just, what I really am drawn to you about, clay, is you're the opposite of that. You're such a big brother and a connector to people that it just drew you all the more in that longing in your heart which I understand, that in so many ways, in different areas of you see somebody and you feel a sense of connection, almost. You know, pastor Chris always called it that divine flow. You can't. It's like favor ain't fair. You feel it towards somebody's like favor ain't fair. You feel it towards somebody and you can't explain why.

Justin: 9:28

And you guys had this connection with each other and to see how it's culminated into this relationship now where, as we've said on past episodes, as Rhett was moving back to Birmingham after he stepped into founding pastor, put a great pastor in charge of his church. He and his family moved back but in that process of getting his house sold in Nampa got to spend some time with you and I can imagine, rhett, what a godsend and I know what we've seen it turn into. You and Clay get to do ministry together at Believer's Church. But when you're going through a moment like that of letting something go that was a baby to you, the loneliness that would have been that season and probably was that season for you, rhett to have someone I know we talked on the phone but you know you were going to be there for a few months and to have a brother just that hour and a half to two hours away that you're able to connect with.

Rhett: 10:27

What a godsend that that had to be, oh it was huge and I don't want to make this conversation about me and I appreciate the honor and how all this is kind of setting up because there's so much of your story we want to hear.

Rhett: 10:39

But for those listeners they've heard me mention you a ton and I know you and I have talked and so you're part of this journey with us on Armchair, authentic, and it's really cool that our friends that join us weekly are getting a chance to finally hear you and hear a part of your story, which I can't wait to get into. But yeah, make no mistake, pastor Clay, god used you in a powerful way. I tell people all the time. God used my wife to save my life and I know that sounds really really kind of like how did that happen? I mean, you're doing ministry but I was just in that place of just kind of burnout and not really knowing what was next and, of course, fast forward you can go back and listen to past episodes where I've talked about some of that but we followed the voice of the Lord, leading us to a place of rest and restoration in our family, in our home ministry. But God raised you up to really just to be that friend but also to create a place of rest and restoration, not so much restoration in the sense of and none of this is like sin issues but, we're talking about restoration of the soul of just this

Rhett: 11:51

soul care, of allowing the Holy Spirit just to continue to do His work in your life, in a place of just a safety, like a safety net, of a place to call home and a place to be seen and a place to be, to still to get to fan into flame the gifts that God has given. You know, you in a, but in a season of rest as well. So, and it was just so beautiful, and so I, my heart, will always be indebted to you and and your wonderful wife. You know pastor Heather, and your entire family and church, and and I'm just so grateful because had you not been there, I don't know where I'd be today. I know God would still move and do things, but I might not even be in ministry right now still God orchestrated, pastor Clay.

Speaker 2: 12:37

He really did that season for you?

Justin: 12:39

Yeah, yeah, because that is the thing we can get in our hurriedness and sometimes it's communicated just to take a break. Yeah, and all that's well and fine, but there's something about still putting your hands to something and working, and that is such a beautiful extension and expression God gave us to do. And you have so many gifts and so many times when you step away from a platform, like you did at your church, it means like there's a season of nothing but to fan into flame, as you just said. What a beautiful way to say it. You still have that opportunity to express those gifts as a vessel of God. Use me how you want to use me. And Clay, you had a willingness not to be threatened by it but to see a friend that you advocated for, and you recognized an ability.

Rhett: 13:29

Yeah, and before we get into your story, last thing I want to say to that end Justin, you had mentioned that Clay is not the kind of guy that felt like he was in competition with anybody, and this is huge as a leader. If you're listening today. What I love about you, clay, is you've never felt in competition with anybody, but you've always felt that the body of Christ, the brothers of Christ, the sisters of Christ, come together to complement each other, each other's strengths, and because of your willingness to be open-handed and to not view me as a competition but as a complement to the kingdom of God, what God was doing in Idaho, and because that is truly your heart, it's amazing to see what God is building right now and what I get to be a small, small, little small part of in the vision and mission of Believers Church in Twin Falls, idaho. I'm so grateful and so none of that would happen without your tremendous leadership in your heart, and it speaks truly of who you are, my brother, and that's why I love you so much, because I'll tell people this and we'll set this up and start diving into your story. Okay, is that?

Rhett: 14:35

I've, and I've told Justin this too. It's not just something I tell you. It's something I tell Justin I've never and no disrespect to any other pastor I've ever served, because they're all special and they're unique and they're wonderful in their own way and I love it because the body of Christ is just that way. But I've never had the opportunity to really serve what I would consider a pastor. Pastor, that's right.

Rhett: 14:56

Like a lot of us have the title pastor, but you actually operate in that gift and what do I mean? Like the shepherd's heart, like he would right now don't do this, but he would give you the shirt off his back, please. You know, but that's the kind of guy that he is Like he will stop what he's doing in the middle of a meeting to go help somebody that needs help. And the way you love people, the way you look at people and communicate with people in the moment and you don't move on to the next, like the way you're able to just live in the moment with a person that God's put in front of you. I mean this brother when I started going to his church. Worship has started. He is not on the front row, he's out in the lobby, I believe that, and he is hugging and loving on every single person and he is walking down every aisle as worship's going.

Rhett: 15:42

We're probably in song two by now. But he's saying hello, like oh, it's good to see you. Oh, and he noticed somebody's in a cast. Can I pray for you right now, man? Father, in the name of Jesus, I pray straight. I'm like what is happening, sweet man, like the pastor should be on the front row. Like where is he at? The service is going, yeah.

Justin: 16:00

Right.

Rhett: 16:00

He's like oh man, the team's doing their part, people are here, but I'm like, and he's just doing in front front row. Just you know about song to. He's there on his face before God, kneeling before God, just crying out to God, and he's not in a hurry. You know what? No big deal. I mean, service started a little late, but man, we're loving people, let's go, you know yeah.

Rhett: 16:19

And there's so much to be said about that, bro. I mean, you know words only go so far, but to see love in action, the way I'm seeing love in action as a shepherd, yeah. So all that to say this is the man of God we're talking to today.

Justin: 16:33

Yeah, he's a special guy Very special, but I got to, just in case you offended him and he doesn't seem the type to get offended, rhett, but you know you seem to kind of plead with him not to take his shirt off please don't and I was like I don't know.

Speaker 2: 16:49

I mean he's built man, he's a built, he's a built dude out of the camera.

Justin: 16:52

I mean, yeah, it's not like it'd be terrible, but he might get cold he's in idaho and he has a picture of of a forest with a lot of snow in the background, with. Is that an antelope or an?

Rhett: 17:03

elk, that's an elk. Have you ever seen the Sasquatch? I mean, they're built, but bro.

Justin: 17:11

I mean, if you want to see a.

Rhett: 17:12

Sasquatch, just have him take his shirt off.

Justin: 17:14

He's a man's man, I mean he hunts.

Speaker 2: 17:17

How about the evolutionists? Oh?

Rhett: 17:20

yeah, man.

Speaker 2: 17:21

I told you we came from monkeys. He's so hairy.

Rhett: 17:25

No man, oh man, this dude looks great though, hey man.

Justin: 17:30

He's a man's man, he's a hunter, come on.

Rhett: 17:32

When I say camping, we did this men's retreat I don't know 2019 or whatever.

Justin: 17:40

He glanced Me and Rhett glanced.

Rhett: 17:41

But Max and I stayed with him in his little camper at this. I don't know if it was a men's retreat, it was a women's retreat thing and the girls all went to it and I was just there hanging out with you and Xander and stuff. We stayed in his camper. I was like whoa did I see Sasquatch? Walk through the hallway in this camper. Anyways, that's so good.

Justin: 18:01

Oh man, that's when you know you're real friends, right. Yeah, you've been that close. Yeah, that's cool.

Clay Ramirez: 18:05

I do want to say something, though, that I hope that people got from the front end of our conversation was that giving people permission to recognize where people are in their life and be willing to help them and be the one to be a part of speaking into one another's life and seeing each other's value. And hey, let's just a what if? Moment. What could we do? You know what is it? How could we be partner and what could we do for God's kingdom? And, you know, maybe bring someone from one transition to a smoother transition, and that you have eyes to see and a heart that cares Really. That's why I did it. I just didn't want someone to struggle, I didn't want someone to have a hard time, I wanted someone to go to one transition and smoothly move over to the next one.

Clay Ramirez: 19:02

I really believe in the principle of what you know, what you sow, is what you end up reaping in your life, and what we've reaped from it was just friendship and then working together on something that God it's a God dream, and then from that, even more dreams have come out a part of it as well with relief pastor and helping pastors across the country and you know, rhett's really good at that Like he's nerdy right, so nerdy school. I love nerdy school and I needed an end of my life that had a little bit more nerd. But I'm a nerd too, like I love stuff, but he likes detail and stuff.

Clay Ramirez: 19:42

He geeks out on stuff, and he's like, casting this dream out in front of me. I'm like, dude, let's not wait, let's do it. Well, I need to do this and I got to have this website. I'm like, no, let's go. Like that's not how Jesus didn't say go start a website first before you do it. It's like let's go do it.

Clay Ramirez: 20:02

And I love that about him and in fact he's helped me to do that with my life, with our church. But it's like, man, let's go do it, yeah, and let's okay. Yeah, we're helping, you're helping a dream happen in twin falls, but what's the dream that's God putting in you? Let's get that going too. You know, and that's how I feel that with our team, with everyone in our church, I don't want my dream or believer's church dream to kind of pass, but what's your dream too? And I think that's what we get to bring all of us, if we have eyes to see, hearts to see, and when we realize, hey, there's enough for all of us, in a sense, to really have this abundant life. Yeah, you know, none of us, none of us are going to miss out on this abundant life. There's plenty, dad's got enough to provide for everybody.

Justin: 20:54

So let's go yeah.

Clay Ramirez: 20:56

And so, oh, man, if, if we could do that, um, I think we'll have more relationships connected than ever before, more of the kingdom going forward, and so, uh, that's what this has been all about, really, I think, you know, and, um, just being real brothers, you know, and I hope that inspires other people to be really open, filleted, open, genuine brothers to one another. You know, yeah, that's yeah, agreed, agreed.

Justin: 21:24

Everybody listening out there. We've said it time and time again because we are products of seeing the success from it. But our brothers and sisters out there, find somebody in your life and invest in those who God's already given you, and just find those people in your life that you can invest in.

Rhett: 21:42

Yeah, and I think some people are like, well, how do you find that? Like, think about this for a second Cause. I can only imagine if I'm a pastor and I'm listening to this, or a leader, I'm like God, where was my Clay Ramirez? Where, like I wanted to, you know, I sure wanted that in my life, or I'd love to have that in my life. Well, it really started by maximizing a very small seed, which was Justin, which was my buddy, connected me with you. I didn't have to reach out, but I did because I valued every moment in every relationship.

Rhett: 22:12

Now, I had no expectation, pastor Clay, when I met you, that anything would ever come of it. I was like, well, I'll just meet somebody, like who knows? Yeah, and we talked and it was fun. We met over at Grandview Campus. We worshiped together on the front row, we said hellos, our niceties, it went on our way and you invested into our church. So you planted a seed into One Life before it started and, of course, as a church planter, it could be a penny, I don't care. Anybody that plants any seed into your church is like thank you, jesus. I need to know this person even more.

Rhett: 22:49

But I didn't come at it from the agenda of oh man, I just hope you'd give more money. That wasn't it. It was like, wow, this person believes in my vision and what we're doing. But it was from there that we just really I don't know what. Every six months or so, maybe eight months, we just reach out to each other and just see it. But it was small. It started so small. Yeah, it didn't come explode into what it has become now.

Rhett: 23:10

I never realized, I had no idea. I wasn't thinking, well, this is my new best friend. I didn't think about that. It was just here's somebody in my life. But I took a moment, you took a moment and we we made the calls, we made the text, and so if you're on this line or you're listening and you're thinking, man, where's my clay or mirror? Well, it could be right in front of you from a very small.

Rhett: 23:30

But allow that seed to grow over time. Yeah, and don't just think that the person you're meeting right now don't come at it with the agenda of I've got to have my best friend right now. No, just look at it as a farmer. You, as a farmer, you're planting seeds and you never know which seeds are going to sprout and produce the most fruit? You really don't. You have no idea. But as long as you're managing those seeds and planning, and planning and being aware and living in the moment and not into the next and just trying to, you know, be more like clay and being aware of relationships, and God builds his kingdom relationally, and it does happen and you can find them, yes, justin, but I don't think. Oftentimes we're looking for the end product and that end result and we're not willing to look at, well, maybe this one hello will turn into something five, six years from now.

Rhett: 24:12

Maybe, not, and so I think, if you come at it with a realistic perspective of knowing that this type of relationship takes time, this didn't happen overnight. We're 2025 now. This seed started in 2018. And I wouldn't say it was in the past two years or really we really started growing even closer into where we are today. Yeah, that's right, but it does take, and I love this and this is a question I was going to ask you.

Rhett: 24:37

Now I've got my own agenda of kind of where I want to take some of the story with your son and how God raised him back to life, because I just want to pause and time out and just say, if you're listening to this, it's an amazing story. His son died and they prayed him back to life. Yeah, wow, it's unbelievable and we're going to get there. But before I do, I'm curious You're talking about. You've always like man. I just want to pour in other people, yes, but I want to help invest in other people's dreams not just my dream, but if somebody is willing to invest into me, I want to invest into them. Where does that type of leadership, in that type of friendship, in that type of belief and open handedness Clay? Where does that come from in you. I guess I'm asking why. Why are you that way?

Clay Ramirez: 25:21

I think that, um, I think probably from where I came from, knowing that I came from not very much my mom was such an important part of my life, she was so impactful in my life. My mom did so well at raising me and she invested so much in me. My dad left my family about I was four and a half years old and so when that happens, poverty hits you real hard, and so I grew up in a very. We were impoverished really young and my mom struggled with that season of her life but she said you know, I'm going to bring my kids to church, I'm going to invest in myself and go to school. She got her nursing degree. She had a short season where she faced depression and I saw my mom's brokenness before God and it led her to Jesus even more and my dad just didn't want to follow that avenue and he didn't want a family. You know, I mean, I can remember when my dad left. I remember it very vividly and I think those things, like you know, for a short season we were standing in, like, you know, bread and cheese lines. We were standing in, like, you know, bread and cheese lines, and we were, we were, and back then they had powdered milk. You know so and then you know today it's very different.

Clay Ramirez: 26:54

When we say food stamps or support, it's not food stamps now, it's like a cute little card. You can't tell if it's a debit card, or you know, or the government's helping out. You can't tell if it's a debit card, or you know, or the government's helping out. We stood in line and it was embarrassing. Right to have support you would have to lick every stamp and put it on the back. The value of that stamp would be put on the back to match up with how much the ticket item was.

Clay Ramirez: 27:21

And I think, from where I come from, that makes me think about how I take that into my life. Is that I'm coming from nothing and I think from that place of where I had those experiences, is that it was tough for us. And when you, when you realize you have value and you start thinking about other people's life and where they've came from and the, you think about their value, you don't just want your dreams to come to pass, you want their dreams to come to pass. And I think, uh, even as a church you know, pastor, a lot of times it's looked on that well, church ministry, you know you're going to always it's going to be lower value of what you make. Ministry, you know you're going to always it's going to be lower value of what you make. And you know you're going to have to somehow come up with your future.

Clay Ramirez: 28:11

And I didn't want that for everybody on our team. I didn't want that for my own life, and you know. So I just I just feel like we're supposed to help other people, you know, accomplish their dreams. And where does that come from? I really think it comes from my roots of I'm a nobody apart from Christ. I'm a somebody in Him. And if you remember where you came from, it keeps you grounded. And I love the leaders that have spoken into my life and those words that they've said. And just to stay humble, remember where you came from, and so I think that it makes you want to help other people. You know and you know. So I just hope that people will see that everyone has value, everyone, the abundant life that's available. Let's let everybody experience that in their own life as well.

Clay Ramirez: 29:08

If you're not careful, even in the market world, like you're right in the marketplace, you can be territorial with that and think I've got to be the biggest of the no, how about there's an equal share or that there's enough for whatever business? You have right. Whatever you do, you know, and I feel that way about the church, I'm like nobody belongs to me. Business you have right. Whatever you do, you know, and I feel that way about the church, I'm like nobody belongs to me. You know right, there's not a person that belongs to me, and there's plenty of people in Southern Idaho that need God, you know. And so I don't feel territorial, I don't feel like someone's embarking on my territory, and I think you've got to fight the flesh through the spirit to make sure that doesn't try to penetrate in. And you know that there's just enough for everybody. That's what I think.

Justin: 29:57

Yeah, I think of the term Missio Dei, which is God's mission. It's like His whole mission is to restore all man back to Him in that original specification that he intended from the beginning, and he wants us to have the privilege to get to be the hands and feet of Him. And so I love hearing stories. I'm a storyteller and I love hearing others' story. It just gives power, it speaks to me a lot. And so when I hear that, how you grew up, a lot of the wounds that you faced, the embarrassments you know, they turn into scars and I love how God restores. If you let Him, he'll take that and restore it and he's brought you back to Him through that process. But then, even through that, he sends you back out as his mission, as his extension of accomplishing his mission and because of what you felt as setbacks and some of these embarrassments, as he's healed you over all these years, you're the extension that's actually being a healer to so many people that you've come in contact with, and that's just a beautiful story.

Clay Ramirez: 31:06

Yeah, I was so grateful that you know my mom, it just clicked to be in relationship with God and she modeled that so well. I mean, if, if there's a single parent out there that just kind of thinks in their life, you know we have a dysfunctional family, cause we don't have both a husband and a wife, and or, you know, it's not quite complete, or how can I do this? Let me tell you there's a grace that will come over a parent to be able to do both, and then God will send people at the right time to be able to speak life into a son or a daughter. That will just be such a blessing.

Clay Ramirez: 31:44

That's the beauty of the church is that the church helps what we say may be incomplete families or split up families. The church is so valuable that it brings these amazing other people that become a part of your family, and they're your uncle and they're your aunt and you know, and they're not by blood, but they've become that by the spirit, you know, and yes, and so I was so fortunate I got saved at five, uh, filled with the holy spirit. So at five, um, and really the message that got me was god wants to be your father your daddy, I love it, and you got that.

Rhett: 32:24

You grew up in Houston. You're a Houstonian, a Texan. I'm from Houston, texas. Yeah, I know you're an Idahoan but you can take the man out of Texas, but you can't take the Texas out of the man. So you are a Texan-Idahoan, so Texan-Idahoan. I don't know how you connect those two.

Clay Ramirez: 32:47

But you were a part of lakewood church, is that correct? I was with john osteen, with john osteen, so you were a part of that experience.

Clay Ramirez: 32:50

So that statement you made, say that statement again about the father uh, when I, you know, when I went to church and actually it was a small church before that, before lakewood, and that pastor later got sick and passed away and that's why we moved to Lakewood but when I was at that church, just hearing the message of God wanting to be our father, father, it connected with me Like oh wait, a second.

Rhett: 33:16

How old were you? Five, is that what you said?

Clay Ramirez: 33:18

I was five years old, five years old. In that I walked all the way up to the front of the church had hands raised, tears coming down my face. My brother came right behind me and followed.

Rhett: 33:32

And who knew what God was going to do through that one moment to then fast forward. You obviously get married, move to Idaho. Your wife's from Idaho there's so much story there we could talk about right. Start having kids. You know you moved to idaho because I'm not mistaken, but pastor heather, she's from idaho, right from the twin falls area, right?

Rhett: 33:55

so you, you move back to her hometown, which is a way for you, and I'm sure that was a huge jump, and you didn't immediately get into church planting or even being a past. You know, like, talk me through that. So you're in, go from Houston and you're in twin falls, you're married. What are you doing? And how in the world did you get into ministry and planning a church?

Clay Ramirez: 34:15

Well, I didn't know how. To you know like to be honest, I come from no minister background, none of that stuff. So if anyone's hearing right now, they think you know my family wasn't this way or what it was, mine wasn't either. And literally I just heard my pastor in Texas just say hey, we got a Bible college and I was in a situation in my life where I felt like I wasn't doing what I really wanted to do anyway and so I went into Bible college, felt kind of led to do that. And then while I was there, I went to Idaho on a trip to help serve at a camp and when I came back I told Heather we were dating now at the time and I said I feel like I'm supposed to go back to Idaho and help serve in student ministry. She was like I don't think so.

Clay Ramirez: 35:11

Maybe you ain't the one then you know. And I just let God deal with her heart, fast forward. Seven months later I said hey, you ready to go to Idaho, you ready to go back home? And she started crying. She said I called my sister last night and told her I'm ready to come back home. And so we got married, moved up there, started serving in student ministry and I was going to college at the same time getting my business degree, and Heather followed along getting her her graphic design degree and we just love what we did. I mean, we just love student ministry. I would have done that the rest of my life and that's why I have students over in my house now and young adult so you were.

Rhett: 35:45

You were doing student ministry in Idaho, but that wasn't your full-time gig, correct?

Clay Ramirez: 35:50

Oh no, we owned a business. I owned a couple of businesses and started them up. They were real small and slowly built over time and God was blessing what we had and we try to be super generous with what we were given. And you know, I tell people I said you know, there was nothing to be boastful for, I was just a monkey turning the wrench in the sense of the business?

Rhett: 36:12

Yeah, but you were. You were very I know you're very humble, but it was very successful. This isn't like a.

Clay Ramirez: 36:18

You were very successful with what you did in the business world, in addition to yeah, yeah, you know, business is serving people, yeah, and when you want to do it with excellence, you're going to be very successful in the business world.

Clay Ramirez: 36:32

And, uh, I would, I just took ministry in the business world, I mean the marketplace, I love the marketplace, like I love it, I I would go back in a second and, um, and I still am in in a degree. Uh, I think it's because the people you can reach, the way that you can bring, if you believe in the service you provide, oh man, yeah, you can, you can really help people, and so I believed in what I did. I was in security and then I also, so I did like camera systems and article surveillance stuff and you, you know, on the commercial end, I mean, how did I even get to that spot? Was just all Jesus, you know? And so like, so we helped plant churches and you know, with that resource and student ministry, our church, local church, and, you know, just using it all for the kingdom.

Rhett: 37:22

When did that turn go into? Okay, you're bivocational, you know you're a business owner very successful, it doesn't matter. But you were successful. You were using the ability to create wealth to impact the kingdom of God, but you were also serving in a local church. At some point, god began to speak to you regarding planting Believer's Church. What was?

Clay Ramirez: 37:44

that like, yeah, and that really happened. I'll say it was October of 2006. And the Lord spoke to me about pulling back from student ministry and giving a transition for our pastor to be ready for a transition. And I had no reason why. I mean, in fact, we weren't sure why we were doing it. And I'm like, well, why, Lord? And I remember the day I told my pastor and those are the, those are the awkward conversations that you've got to have, Like, yeah, you've got to have with people so that, because I believe in honor, I believe in, like, smoother transitions, trying to help the people that you know you serve, and um, and so I just you know, it's so important to have that postured heart. And so I talked to him and I just said, and he's like, well, why?

Clay Ramirez: 38:37

I said I have absolutely no idea why, and uh, I said but I will help you through this transition. What? And I said but I will help you through this transition, help you get the right person in. And and you know those kinds of moments if we could just be really real, because even if you lead as a pastor now, you've got to be prepared for those kinds of moments and how to steward that moment Right. And I think it's so good that we will say the right thing, you know, and we got to follow through and do the right thing too, you know, and because I really think that transitions are just bridges that will cross back over again, you know. So you got to keep those open.

Clay Ramirez: 39:17

You know the Bible says you'll go out with joy and you'll be led forth with peace. Those are transitional things that he's talking about. So you want to transition out with joy to something new and embrace it. Right, that's a transition and you're going to go out with peace. That you had relationships that you were trying to restore. You don't know what they'll do with that, that's not up to you, but you've got to do your part of keeping that. And remember too, like everybody's got to have some grace with people, like whenever you share something you're excited about. It could be like a nightmarish kind of feeling to them, right, because they're trying to figure how do I fill that spot, you know, and it's scary. I mean I've got gaps in our own church and ministry. I'm like how do I fill those? I appreciate the relationships that are here, but we still got some gaps. Not everybody wants to come to Idaho because they want to stay in the South, which is bougie and so easy to be a Christian there.

Speaker 2: 40:16

We Christians live in the Northwest.

Rhett: 40:21

Let me tell you you never know what God might do. There are a lot of students listening to this podcast. You might be surprised what God might speak to somebody.

Speaker 2: 40:30

Well, come on worship leaders, let's go. Come on, youth pastors, let's go.

Rhett: 40:33

That youth, yeah, all of it. So if you're a student in any kind of ministry college at all listening to this, I just want you to know there's an open door to an incredible opportunity, an open door to an incredible opportunity.

Speaker 2: 40:43

It's too easy to stay in an incubator of perfection.

Clay Ramirez: 40:48

I was there. I mean, who can't enjoy where I was growing up in church and ministry in the South? It's one of the things I appreciate so much about and it shaped me my mom. She shaped me so well, I mean stewarded me so well. I was the kid that had the scriptures back in the day, tapes played every night my mom would play them. I mean I can still hear the voice of the King James being spoken into my.

Speaker 2: 41:20

Shoo him down and cast him to the fire.

Clay Ramirez: 41:24

I mean, I can still hear it, you know and that's why I I developed in, you know, scripture memorization and becoming all those things, and it's like, oh my gosh, guys, those things were. So when we were challenged in ministry, we actually went on the you know out in the mission field and there was a little bit of toughness and that's why I think that, man, you come more alive when you have challenge, when there is adversity. That's really good and that's why I hike mountains, that's why I hunt a bow, hunt elk. There's a part of the physicality of that that I have to feel.

Clay Ramirez: 42:04

It's tough, not everybody's willing to do it, but there's reward at the end when you do and you found out something about yourself you didn't know you had. And everyone, whether male or female, they want to know they can do something that they didn't expect that they could and something's drawn out of us that we didn't know was there and we can take that into our spiritual life as well. I mean everybody listen like, take this into your spiritual life If it's easy and there is no challenge and it's already all created for you, you know, challenge and it's already all created for you, you know. I think there's something that you know. I think God uses us to pioneer and make it easier for people so that the next generation, that our, our ceilings, their floor. But like also, we've got to remember it's okay that it's a little tough too and that we're we take this precious thing that God's given us and move it along even further.

Rhett: 43:09

Obviously we all. The body of Christ is very diverse and there are some of us who are pioneers that we're creators. We're like the gritty. Get in there, get out of my way. I'm going to create something that didn't exist and I'm willing to walk into the hard scenario and dig the ground and cultivate things and places that it never existed, in which you are absolutely you and Heather, both in your family, and what is happening, the miracle that is happening, the story of believers church, is unbelievable. I see it, you know, once a month and, and I've seen it, it's just amazing, um, and then there's some people who are called to maintain and and you know there that there's both for sure, um, but if you have a pioneer spirit and want to get into the grit and grind of a miracle story that God is building, you know this podcast wasn't set up to do a moment of advertising for you, my man, but we will use it. Yeah, we would love to talk to you. In fact, you can email me at Rhett at BelieversChurchIdahocom.

Speaker 2: 44:01

That's.

Rhett: 44:01

Rhett at BelieversChurchidahocom to have this conversation because I help oversee this area. But yeah, we are looking for a worship pastor, so that to say God is. You're not going to say this about yourself, but what are we 16 years in now? Is it 16 at Believers Church? This?

Speaker 2: 44:17

June will be 16.

Rhett: 44:20

You're not going to say this in number, I'm not even going to say the number, but it's very large. It's a mega church in Twin Falls, idaho. What are we like? 55,000 people, 60,000 people in Twin Falls.

Speaker 2: 44:31

Is that about right?

Rhett: 44:33

Yeah, in the whole Magic Valley area and surrounding areas and God's doing an incredible work and it's amazing, but it didn't start that way. You know, you guys, when you planted you had that transition with the pastor and all that when I'm getting into all that but, like you, you, you start, you, you, where do you start? When did you start? Like what month Cause? If I remember I think it was June. You started, you planted the church in June and talk about where it was and now where it is and just kind of that. You know you can go as micro detailed as you want, but you know yeah, but just because it didn't come it didn't.

Rhett: 45:10

It happened overnight, like you weren't running what we're running and seeing what god's doing at the level that we're doing it at right now. At first, and it took forever, yeah, I know, because let me just set it up we own 21 acres of land, we're getting ready to churn dirt and in about two year process, lord willing, we're going to be in how many thousand square foot building? I forget? Yeah, 18.5 for the firsturn and we're doing all the red tape. So this is where we are, where we're headed. But go back right, it didn't happen overnight and so go back to planning that first service.

Clay Ramirez: 45:51

Yeah, I had that transition and then in March, my son was born and on the ninth day after he was born we were at a Sunday evening service and my wife said, hey, I think we should take our son to the hospital. And I said, okay. And men, when your wife says I think we should go to the hospital, just take it as a voice of God, because that day I got it right and I could have said, okay, oh, he'll be okay, we can take him tomorrow. You know, I thank God, I went. My son, we got there, we were there at 6 o'clock went in a cardiac arrest and died right in front of us. His chest was going up and down his body. We didn't know at the time, but he was going in a cardiac arrest.

Rhett: 46:45

How old was?

Clay Ramirez: 46:45

he. He was nine days old and failed right, failed right. There was failing in front of us. They were rushing him to the NICU. I grabbed my wife's hand and, you know, first thing tries to grip you is fear, right away, and I said, hey, we're not going to blame God and we're not going to blame each other. We're going to believe for a miracle called my, my, my mom and my pastor. She called her parents and then we walked up to the NICU and they had already been working on him for about 15, 20 minutes and they said I'm sorry, Clay, they stopped us before we went in there, you know, because that we would be ready to embrace what was about to come to us. And and they said, you know he passed. And so we walked in there.

Clay Ramirez: 47:33

We were on this other side of glass. They wouldn't even let us in the room. It was so small. Eight people were in, there, had been working on him, trying to get his heart going again. I mean, they're doing everything, shocking him with everything you can imagine, tears flowing down their face. You know, a kid's dead, it's the worst thing you can ever imagine. And with just enough you know guts to say this.

Clay Ramirez: 47:55

I, you know, Heather and I grabbed hands right on the other side of the glass and we just said we can? We, just right now, in the name of Jesus, we command death to leave and life to come in. And we just started praying. We didn't care what anybody thought, we just prayed and we just believed God for a miracle, and, and probably about five, seven minutes somewhere in there it was about a total of 20 minutes he had been passed. And then, man, life came in, a heartbeat came.

Clay Ramirez: 48:25

They said come into the room. They were just weeping, just, and God was just. We were praying the room they were just weeping. We were praying over everyone. The only one weeping. That person that wasn't weeping is us, Because we were in that mode of like it's game on. And then, a long story short, we were live flighted to Salt Lake City about 3.30 the next morning, and I remember, though, before I walked out of the hospital to go get some clothes for our family cause we were going to be life flighted, and I laughed and I said, devil, you don't know what you just did to me.

Speaker 2: 49:03

And I just laughed just like that. I was like I'm going to make you pay the rest of my life. Come on, that's really good. All you do is and if my son would?

Clay Ramirez: 49:15

have died. People ask well, what if your son would have died? I said, well, I would have been probably unhealthy and make him pay the rest of my life.

Clay Ramirez: 49:27

But he would have paid yeah, yeah, and we. But he would have paid yeah, yeah, and uh, we were lifelied. Four days later we had open heart surgery to allow his heart to come down. In the second week, um, because of the cost of hotels, heather and I we had the opportunity, through the Ronald McDonald house, to stay in one of their homes that they have Downstairs in the basement happened to be a full kitchen, like a restaurant-style kitchen. We made our own sandwiches that day, sat down and my wife says Clay, what do you think's next for us? And I said, heather, I think we're supposed to plant a church.

Rhett: 50:04

Hey guys, rhett here, Armchair Authentic Want to take a moment and say thank you to every single one of you who are joining us, maybe even joining us for the first time. Hey, if you're enjoying the episode, could you do us a huge favor Copy the link from this podcast platform and send it to a friend man? That would mean so much to us. Thank you. Okay, guys, back to the conversation.

Clay Ramirez: 50:30

We made our own sandwiches that day, sat down and my wife says, Clay, what do you think's next for us? And I said, Heather, I think we're supposed to plant a church. Wow, I said I just don't know where. And I said I feel like we need to make an impact and what God's given us in this moment go be a part of seeing Southern Idaho reached. You know, and all the words weren't probably exactly what I just said, but very similar. So we began to pray and like we're crazy, like right, so we 21 days sticks out to us because we were 21 days in that hospital and I've never prayed harder in 21 days in my whole life. And so, um, he gets out of the hospital. We have a hospital in our house for six months. Um, after two months of being in a hospital, we knew we were supposed to plant the in jerome, which is a small community outside twin falls, which is the dumbest thing you could possibly do if you're church planning. Go to a smaller city, right, and uh, yeah population, population give somebody perspective.

Clay Ramirez: 51:43

10 000 people yeah but just felt in our heart that's what god wanted. I said no. My wife's like clearly I think it's drawn. I was like that's the devil you know, I mean, I mean I may not be, you know, used to church planting and didn't have a strategy. Like you know, it is today, but I was like that doesn't make sense going to a small dang city, let's go to Boise you know or?

Clay Ramirez: 52:08

something. And and no, the Lord just dealt with me like, hey, I want you to start here. Yeah, and literally like a year later, we started in June 7th 2008,. The worst year you could start a church in. The best, oh, yeah, cause when everything crashed.

Speaker 2: 52:28

Yeah.

Clay Ramirez: 52:29

Right. Business crashed, markets crashed, everything crashed.

Rhett: 52:36

And if you're not a church planter, you might miss this. But you do not plant churches in June, like it's the beginning of the year, and in the fall because of the rhythms that are happening in life. Now I'm not saying not to.

Clay Ramirez: 52:54

If God speaks to you, great. You just set up for a lot of challenges which you did experience.

Speaker 2: 52:56

Oh, yeah, ten thousand, a town of ten thousand people, like you know, starting on a sunday evening, getting a small group of people sunday night like church, together sharing vision, oh, yeah right, it's really my leader.

Clay Ramirez: 53:02

My leader said oh yeah, do do saturday night and you can still connect with us and help you know and stuff, um which I'm just that guy and I did like I. I still did Sunday nights, sunday uh, more uh, sunday mornings, even Wednesday nights, with them to help them transition, and uh. But what I was doing was, without me realizing it, I was setting up a dream team that would help launch in September when we turned it to Sunday morning services.

Clay Ramirez: 53:29

So I didn't even know any of that strategy, didn't know anything about that, I just did what made sense, so pipe and drape. We didn't know any of that stuff, we just did it because it made sense. And so we pipe and drape classrooms for us and we only needed two at the time. You know, whatever, my wife was a children's church leader, she was the ladies director, I was the worship guy, I was the you know you were pulling the trailer up in the morning at the pulling it all out and setting it all up and yeah, you were doing everything, so we kickstart started in September and then from then like yeah, I mean miracles, like we didn't have no money, all that kind of stuff.

Rhett: 54:07

I mean Heather and I, we and you sell your, you sell your, you sold your business to go all in with this. Is that? Am I correct?

Clay Ramirez: 54:13

Yeah, we did, we went all in. Yeah, we sold business cold turkey. You burn it all. That's the best thing. But I did, I tell you.

Speaker 2: 54:25

I didn't have bull and cut up his cart.

Clay Ramirez: 54:27

Well, I did that, I was an idiot, but anyway, that's awesome. But yeah, just, we totally sold our business. We went all in ministry. You know, even if you decide something and you know, if you think back and you go, man, I should have waited one more year, just go with it. You know, just go with it. It was, it, was it still worked out, no matter what. And Well, can I, can I pause there?

Rhett: 54:57

for a second, though, like I know, I appreciate you saying it worked out no matter what. But no, I mean the grit and the grind that you guys had to push through, because it mean, like it, you're not going to say this, but you've shared it with me and I, you guys, I mean it was a lot of people would have quit, they would have hung their hat on it, said I'm out, like this is too hard, this is too tough. And but you guys, you, you stay true to the calling and obedience of God in your life and you're like no, this is where we're called, we're going to see through. I mean, you guys went without. You poured into other people, you gave when you didn't have it to give and you did everything you can to see the people of God thrive in this little community of 10,000. And you moved from that one facility and then you eventually got into a church building over there, right Like your own building. That was a church. Is that correct?

Clay Ramirez: 55:47

Yeah, I mean in 10 months a building came available and we ended up buying it, I mean for $105,000, a 12,000 square foot building, and wasn't that like a massive leap of faith for you at that time?

Clay Ramirez: 56:02

Like how in the world are we going to be able to do it? You know, I mean it was huge and you know, and God gave us the opportunity, First service we were in there for Mother's Day. These guys were the most generous people. They were like, hey, we'll let you buy the building. They were a missionary Baptist group out of Arkansas, Best people. And then we paid it off in a year and that was a miracle. Like if you could see, like, oh, that shouldn't be a big deal when you're in a small community, small amount of people, very little resource coming in. You know, and Heather and I, every church planter out there, you just got to be prepared that every dollar you spent is going to go. And what are you going to do when it happens?

Rhett: 56:50

So give me a perspective really quick. We talked to church planners who were listening Small town, 10,000 people. So give me. I mean I know we said we're going to talk about numbers, but you guys, like people were coming, man, I mean you had what close to 250, 300 people, 400 people, yeah, yeah, Okay no-transcript.

Justin: 57:35

Yeah, exactly 2008, 2009. It compounds the lack it compounds.

Rhett: 57:40

And so you're in, you, planted in an area that not only is small in population but the church is growing, but also you're discipling people. And people are giving and they're generous, but it's at the level of of what they can give and be generous to, and it wasn't, you probably needed a 15, 2000 people in that community in order to, to have more resources to, um, not elevate, but, uh, fast forward the vision of what God's put in your heart. Right, Absolutely.

Rhett: 58:09

So you know just bringing things into perspective is all I'm trying to do with the story.

Clay Ramirez: 58:12

No, it's so important because people realize that I mean. I think it's really important, though, to start where God tells you regardless of what you're going to face and challenge, just use as much wisdom as possible on the front end. What you're going to face and challenge, just use as much wisdom as possible on the front end, and that realize. You said the word grit you're going to need because you're going to want to quit. Just like in the marketplace, it takes three to five years to build a business, to sustain you, it church. You got to think too. It's like it's going to take three to five years to sustain you, to sustain a staff, a team, so you got to have the grit to get past those hurdles.

Clay Ramirez: 58:53

You know and I think that I had done it in business, over and over and over again with each business. I'd done it in ministry, student ministry helped plant other churches, so I knew the grit involved to make that happen. I would like to say you know too though I wish I wouldn't have went to zero and under a little bit, you know to be real, but I think there was something I God was working in me too and to totally trust him, and so it's built the person I am today, even to trust him Like literally I just genuinely most of the time, and I mean like 99% of the time, I really just don't worry about anything. So I'm in a different now set of zeros now behind some numbers, so that can try to speak. But I really try to live in a place of faith, to trust the Lord, and you know, so Well, now we're, you know, I mean, let's just be real.

Rhett: 59:56

I mean you are in a different set of zeros. I mean the building project that we're in, that we're building towards, I mean you know what are the minimum what? 10 million.

Clay Ramirez: 1:00:06

The yeah, the whole project is $14 million. There you go um, so to idaho. It's so expensive, it is for land because, no, there's nothing pre-existing.

Rhett: 1:00:15

Where you are, it's all pretty much brand new, and no buildings yeah, and so it's a 16 year journey of grit and grind, of a man of god and a woman of god who, about you know, you almost lost your son. You guys prayed him back to life through the power of God and that is a miracle and that miracle story inspired you to continue to move forward and have that same grit and grind and to breathe that kind of miracle life into the people that God's brought you. It's that kind of faith, and I know you mentioned the moments of wanting to quit. There were moments, I know, where you're wanting to quit, but you kept pushing forward in the miracle that God's writing. It's like you had $14 million vision back when you planted the church right Probably seemed impossible.

Rhett: 1:01:01

And here we are in this season of living in the impossible, of what God has done and is doing and what God is writing, which is unbelievable.

Rhett: 1:01:09

But it has been a journey, it's been a process to get where we are, and it's not that this is an end place. This is really just kind of more of a beginning of a love. What you said, our ceiling is somebody else's floor, and that's what you're building and what God is using in you guys and in us in Twin Falls. And so I say all that to say, say like it's amazing to me to see this process and journey of, if you're willing to obey and you're willing to do what's hard, the perseverance, the character, the hope, all the stuff that's developed in you, and I love what you said. It's like, man, I don't really worry about anything, like I've got this piece because you've seen god do the miracles, and so it's like well, of course, my father's going to be faithful to this Right and so, yes, it looks different and it might be a different set of zeros, but it's still the same God. Nothing is impossible with him, and that's.

Clay Ramirez: 1:01:59

And I don't want to lie and say that I'm not nervous oh yeah, you know nervous, or like a sense of like, oh my gosh, this is bigger than me. I'm like, how are we going to do this, lord? But remember, it's like climbing any mountain. There's something that I want to always get to the top so I can see the other side. And there is pain as you go, in the sense of walking and trying to fill your lungs with oxygen level that you need, as it's depreciating as you go up in altitude. But the reward of the vantage point Right. And so naturally, when you build people over time, those other things start to come up to be a bigger net. And we're just holding one end of the net in our community. We're alongside the others that are doing the same thing, that's, to reach Southern Idaho.

Clay Ramirez: 1:02:56

We don't feel alone in this, and so, if I could concur, the answer to ministry is don't give up. Don't give up. The only reason why we've gotten to where we are is because, of course, god, yeah, huge equation. Second one is you just can't quit, and if you throw in the towel automatically, you lose, but if you don't, slowly, over time, you're going to see victory, and even in our spot people would think oh, oh, my gosh, you're in the sweetest spot in Twin Falls. And we are. We are in the most beautiful spot in Twin Falls, idaho. We are the prettiest vantage point on the canyon rim of Southern Idaho Snake River. It's the we're in the two prettiest buildings in the entire city. There is no comparison.

Clay Ramirez: 1:03:49

To have that kind of opportunity is ridiculous and it comes with price. It comes with effort, our dream team's serving. We can't do this alone and I'm so proud of everyone you know. The other thing I'm very grateful for is that I did not have a wife that attended church with me For me. I'm so grateful I had a co-partner, a co-visionary, a co-spouse Heather's my best friend and to come alongside me and like, move forward together, yeah, and she inspires me to be more brave. She inspires me. Clay, it's time to shake it up and do something else.

Speaker 2: 1:04:40

I'm like. I mean, you know, there's parts of me like, oh man, I'm like, how do you do that? How do?

Clay Ramirez: 1:04:44

you make that vision move forward with the lack of the, you know whatever, you know the team or the resource or whatever, and heather's always pulled out the, the greatness out of me. Um, I feel like other people do that for me, but my wife, she's number one with that for me. You know she's that creative, that, that encourager, and she, you know she preaches right alongside with you know she's that creative, that, that encourager, and she, you know she preaches right alongside with me. You know she's a. I want, I want the body of Christ to see what it could look like as a team, because that's what I grew up in in with Pastor John Osteen. Him and Dodie were just tandem together. It was beautiful. I got to see what church could really be like. And in a church when I, I mean, I saw it go from 2000 to 12,000 and I saw the beauty of, no matter how big it got. We were all family and so, and how they loved the people. There was no green room for John, you know he was with the people, and so that's how we are. And so my wife I couldn't be more grateful that I'm not dragging her along in this ministry thing, but in some way, I got to keep up with her kind of thing as well. And I just hope that you know, women, you're called as well. I hope that you know.

Clay Ramirez: 1:06:12

Unfortunately, we have presuppositions set up by false you know, dogmas that have been put in the church. It started with opinions moved to doctrine and then we created dogmas and they're totally disconnected from the gospel, because the first evangelist was Mary Magdalene yeah, let's go. And she went. He Jesus, said you go and tell my disciples. You go, tell them that I've risen. And she went and told. And that story hasn't stopped with women. Yet they are going to this day, going and telling about the resurrection of Jesus Christ. Yeah, and so I've got the greatest partner I could ever have, and that tandemness we've had together to do this together has allowed us for not only ourselves.

Clay Ramirez: 1:06:59

But this is now passed down to another generation in our family, with our three kids. Our oldest daughter she helps lead at another church campus is married to, you know, my son, son-in-law's son, I call him my son. Auburn and Thad are married. They live in Walla, walla and helped to locate another church in Pendleton and lead worship there. And my second-born daughter she's moved from her degree of, you know, pre-doing of pre-vet to now in ministry, shocker and wildlife biology, because I told my kids growing up we're a Levitical priest. It runs in family and whether it had been that historically in my family or not, I don't know how far back you know the lineage of that might be. But I said, as for me and my house, this is what we do and we're Levites, you know that's right.

Clay Ramirez: 1:07:56

Y'all are all preachers and everybody is. You know, I feel like everybody is called to do that. Yes, but I spoke that life into my kids and to my son and he graduates this year. And to my kids and to my son, and he graduates this year. He's going to go to a private college this year and he's going to pursue video, cinematic stuff side and bring it into the ministry as well. But I want his creativity to be what he needs to be. You know, and so you know. I'm seeing that, even through my family, be developed and I would encourage anybody listening.

Clay Ramirez: 1:08:31

The most important people are not your church, the most important people are your family, and I lived it. It was my goal that I would not lose my family or lose myself, and so my kids. They did not get the least of me or the back end of me. They got the front end and the best of me. Yes, and I would rather slow down growth in church and it just be nice and smooth and healthy and that's why people go. Well, 16 years, that doesn't sound really cool, yeah, but I got my whole family who love Jesus, who run home, to be with me, no matter where they're at the greatest gift and I tell everybody, my greatest treasure is not in anything investing or anything in retirement or nothing like that. I don't have. I don't have much of any of that stuff. I don't. Yeah, my greatest investment has been in my wife and it's been in my children and everybody can see the fruit of that. I have the best kids in the whole world, like for me, they're my best, they're my best treasured investment and and so I'm so grateful I don't have the story of oh, there are PKs and they've got to. You know, they're running away there. They don't want anything to do with God. If anything, I praise God.

Clay Ramirez: 1:10:07

It was in me to be a husband first, to be a dad first, and when you keep God first, you're sacrificial to your wife and I love her better because one of the things I think leaders told me Pastor Chris was one of those too said a man on his knees has very little distance to fall, and I heard that his I think it was his father-in-law said that to him and I've just tried to be that with my life and I remember apologizing to Heather. It's not that I didn't treat her well, but I told her. I said I'm sorry, I didn't love you like I do now from the very beginning and I think there was a little bitty of fear that maybe she might leave me because of how my parents were, my great grand, my grandparents and my great grandparents. But it broke with us. You know that that divorce stuff broken us, you know, and some some. We can't control sometimes what things happen in our lives that people experience. But, um, I just want to encourage everybody. It's like man, fall in love with your best friend, your wife. If you're married, let the greatest investment be your children and I promise you the reward will come.

Clay Ramirez: 1:11:34

So much and I'm not saying they're the only thing that fuels me, but I'm just saying that I'm so grateful. There's something I'm more proud of. It's not church. It's not the church growth. My family can't wait to be with me. I can't wait to be with them. That's the greatest thing I ever have in my whole life.

Clay Ramirez: 1:11:55

And it's not how many people got saved this last year. It's not us building a church and scratching ground and dirt this next year. It's literally like my family and along the way that we loved people well. And I can't get to all of them. It's impossible. I tried to have our church hey, would you come alongside us and just love on people.

Clay Ramirez: 1:12:20

And because everyone just wants to know that they have value, that they were seen, that you know, church is totally imperfect, because it's what you know, we're trying to do this in this human realm but it's the most perfect thing, too, because it's the only thing that celebrates God and it's the only thing that celebrates people. And so I can't fit everybody in my house. It's not that big, it's small, you know. I can't fit everybody in my house. It's not that big, it's small, you know. But I feel like that's why God chose Heather and I's because we don't want anybody left out. And so in the church, everybody's welcome, yeah, and one of the things we're careful to do, too, is that we don't make circles that people can't get in. That's why we start and stop small groups, and you know, we're always trying to connect people to other people, not to us, but to everybody. And I just think, too, is that the more authentic you are, the more that you say, okay, hey, I feel this way, or this is what I've been dealing with. Have you ever thought that too? The more that you connect with people, that you're not preaching at them, but you're having this internal conversation that you're bringing out loud for everyone to hear. It makes people connect so much more.

Clay Ramirez: 1:13:44

Even the preacher that I was when we first started zero compared to where I am today, and that was my incubator.

Clay Ramirez: 1:13:52

That's what I'm so grateful about planting in a small community. It became this incubator for Clay Ramirez to develop and become not insecure and be okay with myself and my own skin, and that I did need to develop, needed to grow. I didn't have everything that I needed, that people needed in their own life, and so that was the perfect place to grow for me, and then it allowed that growth to happen, to plant a second location that led for me to be more ready for that spot, and I feel like I'm still growing in an incubator right now. I feel like I'm still developing into you know the leader, pastor, dad. You know husband, friend. You know, because I'm still imperfect, I'm still working on things in my life. Holy Spirit's still chiseling on me, like you know. I mean he needs to take a razor to the my back, but you know he also needs to take a razor to my heart as well, and that's good so so good, you know.

Clay Ramirez: 1:15:05

Uh, I just don't, don't reject the small things. Those are the incubators for you to grow and develop and the best version of you is ahead, if you'll welcome that season and often we want the next season and to be real, I think one of the things too is that Heather and I have been okay with whatever the timing was, you know, whatever that pace was. We realized that we have a church in Twin Falls, idaho, that's very close to an area of Mormonism and and we're trying to reach people who you know they've been in a certain bubble their whole life and they don't know it. And so there's a bigger challenge for a life-giving church in our area where we don't have that many Christians in our area. But the point of is not to have Christians coming to your church, it's to reach lost people, people who are unaware that they already belong to God. Right, we all already belong to God, we just don't know and we've got to get that message to them so that they can come into the family you know that they already belong to and make that awareness.

Clay Ramirez: 1:16:25

And so when I take the father idea or dad's my dad and I was unaware of that I take that into our salvation moment, into our teaching moments, into our and I try to make it connect that people to people that God wants to be their father. And I'm so grateful for every stage I've been in and that I'm coming into. And it still feels slow, it still feels impossible. Right, it's still. You know scary numbers, you know as well at the same time. And then then you have breakthrough, like what we did Sunday night, and you see, you know 70, 80 guys entering in, entering in a 21 days of prayer season, and it's all about coming underneath Jesus's Lordship and them starting to connect that, oh man, the expression of my life needs to be extended to God. And you see that corner turned and you're like, oh my gosh, it's taken this long for this to happen, but how rewarding to see that breakthrough.

Rhett: 1:17:34

And I got to experience that breakthrough with you, which was a huge honor and I've, you know, in almost three years now of getting to serve alongside you, with you, with a, with a team and the men and to see them really just. You know we sing that song, gratitude, that Brandon Lake song. You know, come on my soul, you know, like, don't, don't get shawmy. You got a lion inside of those lungs and when we hit that in, those men just began to really let those words go from their head into their heart and express that Like I. I mean it brings tears to my eyes right now just talking about it because it was powerful. You know, when you have 10% of your men, of your entire church, show up, that's a huge win, because men don't like doing anything except for sitting at home, watching football, whatever, and so when 10% show up, it was amazing. There are so many things.

Rhett: 1:18:29

I didn't mean to interrupt you because I know you could have gone, gone on for another hour and I feel like you're teaching a master class of just good clay, of just how to love your family, love your church, keep your priorities in order with grit and grind, and this, to me, this is one of those dot, dot dot, continued type of conversations to have you back on maybe to dive into. You know, because the family, the family dynamic I think a lot of leaders, whether you're a pastor or not, is like the whole dynamic you were talking about the most successful thing in your life is your family. And I think a lot of people say that and they really mean that and they want that, but they don't really know how do I manage that on top of everything else, because everything else is so important too. But, like you know and you've done such a phenomenal job with that and I love what you said about I'd rather grow slowly and have my family than grow large and lose my family. You know, and I know because I've gotten to spend, you know, time with you and be at your house and go just this, you know, see this in reality and experience it because what you say is truth.

Rhett: 1:19:31

I this, you know. See this in reality and experience it Because what you say it's truth. I mean, you've got a wife who loves Jesus. You guys are co-leading together your daughters Auburn, brooklyn, and your son Xander, the miracle boy. They all love Jesus, they all know how to pray and they don't have a relationship with God because their father and their mother have a relationship with God. They have a relationship on their own, a revealed relationship of God, the father, god, the son and God, the Holy spirit and their prayer warriors, their servants, their. They've been serving alongside you ever since you've. You know you were the youth pastor and the moving into all all the you know planning the church and church planners.

Rhett: 1:20:06

Whether they wanted to do it or not, they've seen it and they've seen all of that in you. But they're not seeing it from just the platform. They're seeing it because you've prioritized them in that relationship and they do run home, they do, they love it, they don't want to be anywhere else but with you guys, and every moment that they can get to come home they do and I'm like to me. That's one reason I love you and I honor you so much is because I'm like, yes, granted, pastor of pastors, but really pastor of your family. I mean, I took a picture of you praying with your son the other day and I texted it to you.

Rhett: 1:20:38

I don't know if you saw this. It was in your house. You're right there by your dining room, by the front door, and I'm in there kind of as a I'm not really a guest, I'm a by the fireplace, you know, and he's over there ministering to his son and just praying over his son. And I'm capturing this picture as a kind of a rock moment for me of what it looks like to be a dad, you know, and to just be there and available, Because a lot of guys would be like oh well, Rhett's over the house. I need to spend time with him and do all this stuff, but no, you're like no. Priority number one is my time.

Rhett: 1:21:07

And it's those moments like that that really just I just honor you and thank you for sharing all that. It's so important.

Justin: 1:21:14

The fact that your family likes to come back. It's just a sign that you don't pull out the little prayers when the guests are over. Exactly, you know what I mean. You're living it authentically, just in the Holy Spirit at all times, and you know when you're talking about your relationship with Heather and how you guys, you bring out the best in one another.

Justin: 1:21:35

And that is. I think that's what we all want out of marriages, because we're supposed to compliment one another, and when she's having a bad day she has you to lift her up. In the same way for you. I mean, I can only imagine we've been there too, the days that your wife gives you that on-time word and she's the only one who can do it. That's going to have a true eternal value on you to carry out the calling that you have. I think it's wonderful.

Justin: 1:22:02

But then what's even beautiful is you guys walking this out together. You're having to go through the grit and the grind, which we know is not something we want to go through, but if we don't go through it, we don't become what we become, and it's. You know there was a leader, bill Hybels, who you know would say this, and I know he's been through all of his trouble and there's restoration for everybody. But one thing that he did say about staying appropriately challenged you know you don't want to get to that moment where, even, as you said earlier, that incubator where it's just like, everything's just so wonderful, no matter where you're at, and we have listeners from all over in different positions. You might be in this ideal environment and you think, well, this must be the Lord, because I'm not feeling any kind of storms come against me.

Justin: 1:22:53

And I think it's important. If you're in that it's like, hey, well, great, I guess enjoy that. But that's where the disciple has to come out. We should always make sure that we are being challenged, because it's the training and the hiking for the mountain, the stuff that you're training for now. That's why it's not legalism, it's discipline to sit down and say, hey, build this time in your life where you are spending time with the Lord. Let's build this time in your life where you are working out, putting some kind of not just spiritual but even physically, where there's resistance you're putting in your life, because then, when you get to the part of the summit that requires pre-training to actually be able to do what God has created you to do. It takes every bit of the challenge that we go through. And so for you guys, for us, to have spouses that we can walk in life with and go through the hardships together. It's a setup, every one of the trials that you're going through. It's a part of this imperfect life, but it's such a grace of God that he's giving us as a setup. And so many times we don't see what's on the other side of that not giving up, because we're so tempted to give up, and we can justify the giving up by saying well, that I don't know if God would allow me to go through this. So I'm going to redirect this where I can feel more of an ease and I love how you really started your talk with us is I wish people would know. Just the advice I would give them is don't ever give up, because the beauty of getting to have Clay Ramirez on our podcast is you've been at this for a long time, way before you even planted a church and you told that story. But even as a church planter 16 years you're just now getting to see your ROI, your EROI, this return on investment that you have spent all these years and we talked about. That might have even been our last episode. I feel like we're just now tapping into areas of ministry and life I never knew it could actually get better. Ministry and life. I never knew it could actually get better.

Justin: 1:25:14

You know, you always hear it's only downhill from here that it can get better, but it's on the other side of not giving up and it makes me think of the rich young ruler. I mean, when Jesus went to him and he's like what do I need to do to follow you and he does all. He gives a list and he's like what do I need to do to follow you? And he gives a list and he's like, yes, those I've done. And Jesus says, great, that's awesome. Now go sell everything.

Justin: 1:25:37

And obviously he was speaking to this rich young ruler and it made him sad because he had to really now count another level of cost of giving everything up. And you remember it even says, like Jesus loved him, oh yeah. Of giving everything up. And you remember it even says, like Jesus loved him, oh yeah. And I just can't help but thinking how many epistles could we have potentially been reading from that guy if he would have surrendered everything, like we never know what was on the other side of his surrender, because right at that moment he had done all these things so well.

Justin: 1:26:07

But something got to him and he's like I quit, I'm not going to continue to pursue at this level. And I think there's church planners like Clay Ramirez, I think there's people working their nine to five jobs and maybe you are feeling you're not feeling anything in your marriage or as a parent, and God doesn't want you to go by your feelings. He wants you to hang in there and stick with the mission that he has for you, which, in so many times, yes, do justly love mercy. Walk humbly, micah, six, eight, but it's also when you've done all to stand, stand, don't give up, because there's so much that's on the other side of not giving up.

Clay Ramirez: 1:26:50

Even in the incubator, is challenge, you know, and I feel like I'm in another incubator, if that makes sense. Each stage kind of prepares you for the next one and it's a growth season for you and just welcome it, you know, embrace it, Realize that that as a person you're being developed. And I felt like the word for me in 21 days of prayer right now was that I merge with the holy spirit. Spirit to spirit, that people, um, no longer can distinct who's. There's a difference. That is all god in you and lesser of you. You know what I mean, and so I just told him I don't, it's, it's not that power doesn't associate with with, uh, relationship with him or, um, you know, miracle, all those things, anointing all that stuff.

Clay Ramirez: 1:27:48

But I want the person of the holy Spirit, because the person of the Holy Spirit in you, when he merges with you, that's what people need the most, that's what your wife needs the most, that's what you, you'll be more selfless, you'll, with your children, just being real with them, authentic about your mess ups, your. You know your, your insecurities, your stuff that you've had to go through. When you merge with the Holy spirit, you're more real to your children, you're more real to your congregation. And the other thing is is if I could set some people free. Being the lead pastor isn't all that, and I can't wait till I don't do this In the most amazing way, because I know that I have another mountain to climb, if that makes sense.

Justin: 1:28:35

Yeah, purpose continues.

Clay Ramirez: 1:28:37

It continues and I see the value of all people in our church, all like the second leader, the third, whatever you want to call it. I feel like it's a circle. I feel like it's a circle and it makes sense that the body I told my church like, or Rhett, knows, cause this is how I talk. Would you help me come pastor people? Yeah, would you help me come pastor the church? I ask them in small groups will you help me come pastor the church? Cause I can't pastor the church. Right, I need, I need to equip you to go pastor the church. Yeah, way to go, that's awesome.

Clay Ramirez: 1:29:13

Yes, and really like the church doesn't realize that really like a church planner, is more apostolic, you know, and the developing of really pastors who create circles that we serve one another and help pastor people and man, the more that you decentralize leadership, the more the kingdom of God is built. Yes, and the more that we quit building our kingdoms and castles, we will build a kingdom of God, and so I feel like that's where God wants us to be is like a little bit more of decentralizing leadership that people go I don't even know who the preacher is, I don't know who the leader is in here. That's kingdom stuff right there and for some people that's scary. But I found this is that if you'll do what seems more scarier and out of your control, is that if you'll do what seems more scarier and out of your control, then God's more involved in it and more people will be reached as a result of it. I mean, I had a guy come up to me.

Clay Ramirez: 1:30:22

He came up to me this last Sunday. This guy gets saved. He says, pastor, my friend, he wants to get saved. I'm like, okay, well, let's pray. So we prayed over him and then we walk away. We're dying. I prayed over him and encouraged him and kind of gave him next steps, and then this guy pulls me aside a little bit. He's like Pastor, you won't believe. I can't believe this guy got saved. I'm like, well why? He's like he's my drug dealer.

Rhett: 1:30:52

He was my drug dealer. Is that the guy that we prayed for on Sunday night?

Clay Ramirez: 1:30:55

No, Come on, Jesus.

Rhett: 1:30:57

Was I a part of this? I'm curious. Yes, that was in the foyer. That was in the foyer this past Sunday. Crazy, oh, come on.

Clay Ramirez: 1:31:11

Let's go, but the more that we empower other people, that you are pastoring people, that we create circles. And I told that guy I said now, and he goes, I want to start a small group because of the language he heard. And I said, yes, and you're going to help pastor those people, you know, and they're coming out of stuff and getting freedom and we're speaking, calling into them in purpose. And you know, that's just one of many that all of us could say of what God's doing. And let's get people to think differently than we've ever thought before and how we could even do what we call this thing church or ministry. And I think we'll reach way more people in a quicker amount of time if we'll just like realize it's not ours, it's all His. And I love what you said about that rich young ruler.

Clay Ramirez: 1:32:08

What are the books that could have been written? And if we're not careful, we could, on the other side, stop people from their potential Absolutely. And the books they could have written, the marketplace ministry they could have done yeah, you know, because they never thought of it. And we could inspire thought or we could crush thought. And I hope that we're more about inspiring ideas than crushing ideas, you know, and that's the side I want to be on with church, and even if it looks totally different, and some of the things that we want to accomplish, you know we feel like we want to accomplish don't even happen. I'm okay as long as Southern Idaho's reached. Yeah, you know, that's all I care about.

Clay Ramirez: 1:32:59

And my prayer is in the mornings I'll pray over the pastors of our area. I read off names and churches and, uh, what I'll do is I'll, I'll pray, lord, I'm praying. Every church filled to the max, multiple services, there's not room enough to contain in everyone, and that's the Baptist, the Baptist, the Presbyterians, that's the Nazarenes, you know, semlig, all of them, you know, because we can't possibly reach everybody, it's impossible, that's right. And the less territorial you are, the more we're like this Holy Spirit, and so we've got to merge with him, more we got to have his heart. And you know we're drift, we drift.

Clay Ramirez: 1:33:42

You know I appreciate 21 days prayer because it makes me, you know, reset and come closer to the Lord as a result. You know, um, reset and come closer to the Lord as a result. So, um, and all of us are insecure. Little kids, you know, inside grown skin, you know, and uh, but oh man, if we could just press past that and value everyone and uplift their, their, their desires as well, um, we're going to reach far more people than what we could ever imagine oh, that's so good.

Justin: 1:34:13

And I think about something that you started, really, as we wrap this up, you know you started with this and I think it's important for people to be reminded. You got to be in a secure place and our surroundings don't allow us to always be secure because we're in fallen world and we've had bad experiences. We haven't maybe had the parents who've loved us or, like your dad, who had left you and that left such a major, very impactful to anybody who's gone through that. Or you've had the guardians or the authorities in your life. Maybe something has happened and it made you feel betrayed, and I don't know when you said that. It rung with me, because last night I was reading the scripture and it was Psalm 2710. And this is just for everybody to really just receive, because no matter where you're at in life, no matter what you've experienced or the hurts that are very real and valid, we validate those hurts. Even as you're listening now, we know that it's been hurtful, whatever it is you've gone through. But, as Clay was just saying, you've got to have the relationships we're supposed to be edifying and building up one another, because we can't do this if the circle's not formed perfectly, and so in everybody, the circle can continue to grow. There's always a space for you on the circle, but there does have to be that process of trust that you have to have and just remember what, ultimately, what God says about you and I'm speaking to someone who might not have even stepped into serving Jesus yet but also the leaders who are listening and you just feel that maybe you've been at the top of your game, but you can acknowledge what Clay said, that that insecurity is one of your greatest drivers to be on top and you're very guarded because of wounds maybe that you've been through in the past.

Justin: 1:36:00

But in Psalm 2710, it says though my father and mother forsake me, so the closest relationships you could ever have in life, though my father, mother, hey, though my friend, though my best friend, though my pastor, though my teacher, whoever it is, though my father and mother forsake me, the Lord will receive me and if we can approach His throne of grace with confidence, knowing he has received us, he's received us because all that our Father sees is Jesus in us. He doesn't see our mistakes. He doesn't see the betrayals that we've been through in a way to hold it against us, or the reactions that we've lived because of our betrayals. He sees Jesus through us. So he is at all time arms open, wide and he wants to extend family to you where, just like Clay's, children and his family run back to him when they get the chance.

Justin: 1:37:01

If we could see our father in that perspective, no matter the hurts and wounds we've been through, if we could catch a glimpse, no matter the space we are in life, that we can come running back to Him and His arms are open. He's never been disappointed with us. We don't have to prove ourself in any kind of way, but he's there and he wants to take us, no matter where we are in our pursuit. Whether you're, as I said earlier, at the top of your game pursuit, whether you're, as I said earlier, at the top of your game, we need God, whether you're the poorest person or you're the rich young ruler in life. Right now, if we can surrender everything we can and walk into the receiving arms of our Father, that next mountain is waiting, that Clay talked about. There is continued purpose in our life and he's just waiting for us to step because he will always, no matter who's forsaking you in your life. Think about that.

Rhett: 1:37:58

He's waiting to receive you. Yeah, and I would add something to that too, as you were talking and setting that up so eloquently, I'm just reminded that we don't have a Heavenly Father or a Savior who cannot relate to the pain and even to being forsaken, because I know many of us think, well, our God can never really relate to us because of X, y, z I mean, how could he? But I love that Scripture teaches us and I don't have the verse in front of me, but it's simply saying we don't have a high priest who basically I'm paraphrasing, yeah who can't relate to us, like we don't have a mediator in heaven who doesn't understand. No, we have one who came as a man. Truly, god came as a man. Jesus christ died on the cross and experienced every pain, every hurt, every betrayal, every even ability to feel forsaken. Because, remember jesus on the cross, why have you forsaken me?

Rhett: 1:38:51

he had to experience the being forsaken by a father, in order to be able to relate to, clay, your story, yeah, into the thousands and millions of others who have experienced that to, in order to take that pain, that hurt that you know, and I could only imagine how painful that was for Jesus to be feeling that separation even for those moments. But he had to take it so he could relate to us. And out of being able to relate to us, taking upon the sin of the world, the hurt, the pain, the deepest, darkest wound that you could ever experience, taking that upon himself, dying on the cross to do only something, what we were intended for. We were all supposed to die to our sin. Jesus took that upon himself for us. This is the gift of God, everybody. He died and by the power of God he was risen again, overcoming death, hell and the grave, taking upon the sin of the world, forgiving us, and now he's seated at the right hand of the Father, having now sent the power of the Holy Spirit which, pastor Clay, you were mentioning.

Rhett: 1:39:51

Merging our lives with the Holy Spirit is simply the power of God on the earth today, which you can't even profess Christ as Lord unless you have experienced the Holy Spirit. It's nothing weird, it's just beautiful. It's the presence of God that lives on the earth. Today. It is right. And now Christ, seated at the right hand of the Father, says he's mediating on our behalf. So if you're here and you're listening, you're thinking that he can't relate to you. Know he's saying hey, father man, what? What Sarah's dealing with right now? What, what? What Joe's dealing with right now? What Paul, what you know? Fill in the blank, god. I've experienced that. It hurts, it's hard, it's difficult. And he looks over to the father and he said I've been there, that's difficult, and I've I died for that. I took that pain to your point, justin. We've not like. They're not forsaken.

Rhett: 1:40:38

We're not forsaken because christ can relate to everything we've gone through yeah and so the father extends his grace through christ jesus, mediating on our behalf, through the power of the holy spirit, to remind us today that you know, I see you, I hear, I hear you, I'm there. I know it's hard, but if you'll just come to me and walk with me and learn my rhythms of doing life, there is rest for your soul. There's rest and, pastor Clay, I love what you're saying merging with the Holy Spirit. For those who might not be Christians and understand that concept, it simply means coming into alignment with a God who created us, who loved us and has put his power on the earth. The Holy Spirit is the power of God and is the wisdom of God. That's what the Holy Spirit is. He's living within us and is living, and you have that access today to experience that wherever you are. And if you haven't, man, all you've got to do is just say God, I need your help. I believe that Christ is the Lord. I believe he's our Savior. I'm going to give my heart to you. I'm tired of living life my own way. I need you. That kind of simple prayer, heartfelt man, I'm telling you you'll begin to experience the presence of God Because when you call on the name of Jesus, something powerful and transformative happens in your life. And if you're leaning into this conversation and you're hearing Clay and Justin and my life and our perspective, it's because we've come to that moment to have that realization that didn't come from a head knowledge, but a heart knowledge of a father who loves us, who gave everything for us to have this type of relationship. Man, it's life changing, it's game changing. It will change the directory, like the ashes that are in your life right now. God doesn't see ashes, he sees beauty.

Rhett: 1:42:12

I love the song that we sang on men's night. It says God, where we see a cross, where we see death, where we see perseverance, where we see this hard way of living our life, god, you see an empty tomb Like. You see a resurrection, you see being a life and you see the impossible. You see the miracle working power of God in ways that I couldn't imagine. So, no matter what you've done, where you are, what you're experiencing, there's nothing impossible for God to resurrect from you, because if he can resurrect Christ from the dead, he can resurrect the dead in your life as well. And so, just to go along with this, like man, I love this, clay.

Rhett: 1:42:46

I'm so glad that people get an opportunity to hear what I get to be a part of in your life and this is why I tell you, like man I'm like it should be every person's like greatest joy to get to serve a pastor like you, because of the heart and your love for people and your love for the church and your willingness to lay your life down for others and to lead by example and to put your family first and have your priorities in line. You're not perfect, I get it. We all make mistakes. But I'm so thankful people have had the opportunity maybe to catch a glimpse just of what Jesus has done in this broken little boy over time and mending that together, and to see how the devil's plan for your life was to kill, distill and destroy, and he thought it was going to happen by removing your father out of your life and you allowed the Heavenly Father to step in and look at the miracle power of God. Now you're a spiritual father to literally thousands of people, thousands of people, and what a gift.

Rhett: 1:43:39

And so with that, pastor Clay, I know we're wrapping this up, but would you be willing to just say maybe a prayer, because I know you are a man of prayer. You're a man of faith, but you're a man of prayer and I know God moves mountains when you pray and I don't know who we're praying for, but I just feel like there's a moment that you're supposed to pray for somebody who's listening and I don't know what you're supposed to pray for, but I feel like you're supposed to pray for them. Would you pray us and close this out?

Clay Ramirez: 1:44:07

Absolutely Lord. Right now, I just lift up Lord. Some people might be listening to the podcast Lord in the future, right now, in this moment, and we just lift them up. Maybe they feel like that they were forgotten, that they're lost sons and daughters and maybe they feel like Lord, they don't have a natural father in their life or mother or something significant, and they just feel lost and I just pray right now in the name of Jesus over them. They already have a father, they already belong to someone, they bear the image of their heavenly father and I just pray that people would come into relationship with God right now, just say, Father, I receive you, forgive me, I accept my adoption into your family, I thank you for the price that was paid through Jesus and I ask you, just like you raised Jesus from the dead, raise me from the dead and bring me into life with you. Let me fulfill my purpose. Holy Spirit, fill me with your power, your presence, so that I can make a difference for you and give me every spiritual gift possible. And give me every spiritual gift possible and I pray over every person.

Clay Ramirez: 1:45:34

That just feels like a significant relationship. Maybe you lost, not died, but it just seemed like it got cut off. You're not an orphan, you're not alone. You have your heavenly father and God is going to bring restoring relationships, relationships that you can trust, and when it feels like one relationship is taking out, god's going to bring another one and it's going to be OK and it's going to be rewarding. And I pray that you won't be intimidated to not step out and receive the relationships that are all around you, to not step out and receive the relationships that are all around you, and I just pray, lord, maybe the hurt or the bitterness that's been in there to just dissolve and the power that tries to hold us, lord, from embracing the best that's ahead right now. Just be that power be broken right now and freedom come in, and we just thank you for it, lord, that they're going to embrace the best that's ahead and the relationships that you bring, in Jesus name Amen.

Rhett: 1:46:38

Clay, thank you so much for praying for us and I would say this right now if you're listening to this and you've listened and joined us on this kind of journey this is the first time we've ever done this and what I would say is, if you did say that prayer for the first time and you meant it and you know it and you experienced the power of the Holy Spirit moving in your heart and your life, then I encourage you. Your next step, man get you a Bible. Go to a life-giving church. Try to find one in your area. If you don't find a Bible, somehow, some way, start in the Gospels Matthew, mark, luke and John. If you're new to reading the Bible, it's about halfway. Open the Bible about halfway. Go near the end. You'll see Matthew, mark, luke and John. You don't have to understand all of it, just start reading it. The red letters are all that of which Jesus is speaking. Those are his words. Read that. Find you a local life-giving church.

Rhett: 1:47:30

You can tell life-giving church and what we mean by life-giving gifts that God's put in you and creating a place for family. And the churches that are creating places for family are those who have small groups and the church looks like the people that God has brought them, not just like the pastor. That's what a life-giving church looks like. So I'm going to encourage you to find that and we're just so excited. Congratulations. That's the coolest thing, man, way to go. And if you did, man, email us, let us know Info at armchairauthenticcom. We sure would love to hear from you. Put it in the comments and yeah, that's awesome, that's awesome. Thank you so much, clay.

Justin: 1:48:02

Yes, clay, thank you the leaders to keep going, and they've learned from you, clay just don't give up, because the best is on the other side, and we are so honored, clay, to get to have you with us today, and this is definitely going to be an episode that's going to impact a lot of people, so we're very thankful for you.

Clay Ramirez: 1:48:23

Love you guys, thankful for you too.

Justin: 1:48:27

Thank you for listening to Armchair Authentic. You know, a highlight for us is when we get to engage with you. That's why our socials are there. Reach out to us on Facebook and Instagram at Armchair Authentic, or on X at Armchair Auth Pod. That's Armchair Auth A-U-T-H-P-O-D. We're really looking forward to bringing you these episodes. Each week, we have some great guests in store and, of course, me and Rhett are going to be bringing you some authentic conversations. If you're enjoying these episodes, would you do us a favor, would you copy the link and text it to a friend? We'd love to have them join us on this journey. Hey, we look forward to talking to you again next week on Armchair Authentic, but until then, we'll see you soon.