Justin: 0:00

That person who's got 80, 90, 100, 200, that is as beautiful an expression as this mammoth of a church. They're both an expression of the body of Christ. There's a balance that we should be appreciating, which is obedience, the body of Christ.

Justin: 0:16

And it requires a heck of a lot of humility to be able to do that. Not everybody needs to remember you. You need to be a good steward of who God is putting your life and make an impact on who those are, whether it's 10 or whether it's 1,000. But you do want to be a faithful steward, whether you were given the five talents, the two talent or the one talent.

Rhett: 0:35

At the end of the day, did you do what was in your heart to serve people, well, great. Same thing with large church, small church.

Justin: 0:47

It's like are you being obedient to what God's put in your heart and, ultimately, are you content that God is enough for you? You might not be a leader that's out front of everybody, but everybody could aspire to be a pillar.

Rhett: 0:54

What do pillars do they support? In other words, they lay their lives down to see other people lifted. What is going on? Armchair Authentic friends? Welcome back to another episode with Rhett and Justin here on the podcast, where we're stewarding our stories, our relationships, in ways that serve you Having real conversations about real life with real people. Now, today, Justin and I have another, what I would consider a great conversation around the topic of agenda.

Rhett: 1:35

Are agendas good?

Rhett: 1:37

Are agendas bad In the context of relationships, business leadership? Yeah, we go there today and we can't wait to get into it, but before we do, we always want to take a moment and say thank you to every single one of you who have taken the time to share the episodes with friends. Man, every time you've copied the link and texted it to a friend, shared it, emailed it, airdropped it to a coworker. However, you've decided to share it. I just want you to know, on behalf of Justin and I. It has meant so much to us. Thank you. Now, if you're new to the episode, welcome friends. It's so good to have you with us. If you haven't already done so, could we encourage you to go to Facebook or Instagram? Look us up.

Rhett: 2:15

You can find us there at Armchair Authentic. That's at Armchair Authentic. Now, if you're over on X, you can find us there too, at Armchair Off Pod. That's at Armchair Off A-U-T-H-P-O-D. All right, friends, the moment you've all been waiting for Our conversation begins right now.

Justin: 2:41

So, rhett, I was actually teaching a class the other day and a student asked this question and he said so what does your rest look like? And so I got into talking about what day I usually rest. And for me we've probably talked about it before, but I will take Friday around 5 o'clock, where my world kind of winds down and we get in like pizza mode. We do movie nights, stuff we've said before, but lately we've been on this um mario kart deal where kai, our 14 year old, decided to take the old nintendo switch and move it upstairs where we congregate more, okay, and so we ended up doing that and somehow we've just just become like it's a brand new game that came out. That's fun. And so the reason I have to tell this is, as I'm speaking to the class, I realize I get caught up in a moment, because I used to be the champ Like no one could touch me At Mario Kart.

Rhett: 3:37

No one could touch me. I thought for some reason it was on Wii, because we had the Wii, then we had the Wii U and I think the Wii U is where we really went all in on the Mario Kart. Oh, it was, or maybe it was all of those it was. I mean, it was like God.

Justin: 3:48

Mario Kart was back on, like Nintendo. Okay, I mean the early days, every Nintendo. There was a new Mario Kart and then Nintendo Wii. We played it all the time on Mario Kart, but it's like the new mario brothers game, but it's the game. Oh, it's the game. I mean we've been playing this same mario kart 8 for like eight years. So I think the new console might come out this year and they'll finally come out with mario kart 9, but dad's always dominated this game, like the kids. They can't beat me, and so, lately though, I don't know what it is, but it's like the switch finally flipped and so, as I'm talking, the switch on, the switch actually switched, oh gosh, yeah, good point.

Justin: 4:31

The switch in their skill level. Okay, there you go, finally switched as we're playing the switch. And I find myself answering the class, and you know when you just get on a tangent. And now I'm talking about Mario Kart at Highlands College. I'm talking to Highlands College about Mario Kart.

Rhett: 4:50

Get ready for the great things you'll learn at one of the leadership institutes of. America. We're talking about Mario.

Justin: 4:56

Kart. We are talking about Mario.

Rhett: 4:58

Kart.

Justin: 4:59

With purpose. And so I began to talk about it and I just say, you know, the more I think about it, I've been playing Mario Kart with my sons and it's been three weeks since I've been in the top three because they're annihilating me, like three of my four boys are up there with us every night and I can't win. And so next thing, you know, I'm just on this deal where, you know, obviously I'm having a little fun with the class, but I'm just kind of spaced out and I look at them like, oh, I'm sorry, let me get back to how my day goes. And of course they all laugh, but it was just, I mean, asking about rest. They were asking about rest and that's how we rest. But it is funny because I had more fun with them.

Justin: 5:38

But it's so true, we've been playing this and I have finally hit this point in life. I mean I don't know what it is. I'm hitting the buttons, I'm doing everything that they're doing. I can't beat them anymore. Whatever tricks, whatever slides, whatever it is that they know to do to beat me Like Rhett, I can't even come close anymore. And it's so frustrating that when me and Summer talk about this, I'm like do we need to go buy new controllers, so you're just discipling them.

Rhett: 6:09

Well, that's all you're doing. Leadership wise, what you're doing is they were following you and you were challenging them, and they've led up to the point to where, now, the student has become the master.

Justin: 6:19

And that's what you want.

Rhett: 6:20

Is it not in leadership? You want to lead people and see them grow, but then you really want to see them go and flourish and do better and greater things than you ever did you do?

Justin: 6:28

but you know what you have to go through a season a little bit where it hurts because you're just not the main thing anymore.

Rhett: 6:33

It's like the world record breakers, those who are the fastest runner in the world. Right, they set that Olympic time and they know it's going to be beat. Every record is always be at some point in life.

Rhett: 6:46

Well, it's like and then what do they become?

Rhett: 6:47

Well, I used to be the guy that had the world record you know generations ago, but now there's, and then you can hold on to that for a little while too, and there's identity in that.

Justin: 6:55

Yeah, Cause athletes they are amazing, their peak, the top of their game and then finally they retire and there's still a little bit of time of they're. They're still awesome. People remember them. Yeah, and I was in the mall a few months ago is during the christmas season and I had there was this guy autographing some stuff. He had this table. It looked like he had set it up himself and we've talked about this before in all the cities we're in we are in the South. College football is King. Yeah, and it was a college football player who and I'm not going to say names, but he had made it to the NFL major at one point. Major star. Did you go to the car show? Is that where you saw this?

Rhett: 7:37

No, this is at the mall.

Justin: 7:38

Okay, he had a little stand there and I'll walk there. And nobody's there, yeah, and so I'm like looking up, like who is this guy? And I introduced myself hey, I'm Justin. He's like, hey, I'm so-and-so. And as he introduces himself I realized like he was, he was hot stuff back in the day, yeah, like I would have like been starstruck and I just I just shook his hand and I just shook his hand. I was like, oh cool, it looks like you got some cool stuff. Yeah, nobody's at his table because no one remembered who he was, because he was that great player.

Justin: 8:13

But even over time, it just kind of diminishes of. You know, you're no longer relevant in the sense of that. And if you built everything off of being that relevant athlete, yeah, people will forget as different generations go by, and it was just that reminder that he's probably at one moment thinking life is good. Yeah, I've got this thing figured out. Yeah, and at some point the baton was passed or wasn't, or it wasn't passed to somebody and it was just done. Yeah, that's probably the better way to say it. You, you basically built everything on that celebrity of the moment, but you had built nothing up that you kind of go to after because your leadership has. You know there's a bit of a shelf life that people don't realize when it's the leadership having to be out front the most cutting edge, the most this, the most that. Those are peak performance days, but that will diminish, but the good thing. Getting back to Mario Kart, I'm still their dad. Yeah, and I love how you got to make me feel better. Yes.

Justin: 9:20

I have been the foundation they're building it off of. Yeah, but even joking in family, you know, when years go by and they're out of the house, guess what? I'm still dad because I've built and I've poured into them.

Rhett: 9:35

I will always be relevant to their life and maybe when they're older they'll humble themselves and pull out that game and play it with you and let you win, yeah, and act like Dad. You're really I don't know what happened, but you're 70 and you're crushing us.

Justin: 9:53

I have no clue.

Rhett: 9:56

And I'm like boys Daddy's back.

Rhett: 9:59

Slip on that banana peel boy.

Justin: 10:03

I'll have no idea, they're playing me. You just got hit by that turtle shell and I won't even see him like winking at each other, like look how fast I am from bullet bill he can't get me usually when they usually a mario kart. When you're bullet bill, it means you suck.

Rhett: 10:16

Oh yeah, it's trying to help you it's been so long since I played that game but it's funny. You mentioned that because orlando, uh, epic universe is about to come out. Have you heard about this thing? Yeah so it's kind of like I don't know orlando uh, you know, it's king of theme parks. Universal is in direct competition with disney, for sure, but I think everybody started picking up on these themed type lands. You know like, uh, you got the star wars, galaxy's edge harry potter Potter.

Rhett: 10:45

Harry Potter and like just these, overwhelming, you walk into it, immersive experiences where you feel like you're actually in the movie or in that environment that has been created. Yeah, which is amazing. And so they're opening this. So Max and I are kind of watching the commercials and he's he grew up with that like how to train a dragon. I love that those movies were awesome.

Justin: 11:09

You know, know and they've got this whole land of how they got a live action film coming out now the live action film, so it's all tied in it's all planned out.

Rhett: 11:15

It's not by accident, right, but they you were mentioned the mario part and uh, they've got like a mario world over there, which I told in in. There's a part of the commercial where it looks like you're actually in in a cart do it like playing mario, and they've got that.

Rhett: 11:29

they got a kid with that like a helmet on or like a dude, I don't know if it's a virtual glad, but they got a kid in the cart and of course, you know, I'm like, oh my gosh, I've got to go to epic universe for, like you know two things to see my son live in the, how how to train a dragon area or whatever. And I think, from what I've told, I don't know if it was AI, but they've got like this live dragon, like oh wow Thing flying around the park you know like and and how they do that.

Rhett: 11:55

I don't know, but we'll, we'll see if that's actually legit. Um, but then I really want to go to Mario. I want to like race the Mario cart. I really want to go to Mario, I want to like race the. Mario cart. I want to do that, I love that, and so you know, yeah, I don't know.

Justin: 12:06

You probably, you probably feel it too. It's like they probably have it. If a turtle shell hits you, you probably rumble with it, yeah. So I don't know. I'm like you're really there, I don't know how they're going to do it, but it just, it just.

Rhett: 12:29

You know the little kid in me, and so as you're playing and you're talking about it.

Justin: 12:31

I'm like let's go. So it's funny that you pick it back up, but it is. It is so true.

Rhett: 12:32

It's a fun, you know that's a fun true story. Yeah.

Justin: 12:35

But the whole point that we were talking about it's like there are days that you're going to have your days that help the shelf life in certain things, and it's knowing like, what are you building? Yeah, that's also not just eternal. I think we can always go eternal, but what are you building That'll be lifelong, lasting versus stewarding. Well, those days, but also the baton passing mindset.

Rhett: 12:58

Yeah, so what it's interesting? You mentioned that one question I have is what do you think has made michael jordan last as long as he has, as far as the guy hasn't touched a basketball like in public for years, but yet, yeah, dude, he do. You know he owns a nascar team, I believe it no he owns a nascar team like he, he's all.

Rhett: 13:18

And the reason I know this is because we watch racing and we're inundated right now with all things racing with my son and yeah, he owns a racing team and he's trying to be the best at that. Now he doesn't race the car, he's got other guys that do, and so on and so forth, but he's got I mean, you got Michael the Air Jordan. You know basketball on hand tongue. You know Iconic the iconic shot of Air Jordan that would be on a sneaker. You know Sneaker, I don't know. Kids will say that Unkicks, you can't hear me coming.

Rhett: 13:44

I'm sneaking, but it's on a race car. It has nothing to do with basketball, but yet the choices he's made, obviously the best basketball player that's ever lived. That's arguably, in my opinion. People think, well, what about Kobe? And what about the other guys?

Rhett: 14:02

I don't know, man, but I think Jordan, just I'd have to say Jordan hands down um, in LeBron James and all these guys, but I really think that Jordan, in his time and his day, was the best of the best of the best, and we'll always be until somebody can prove otherwise. But like, think about it, like, but like it's lived on and he built.

Justin: 14:24

There were things he was building while he was the basketball king.

Rhett: 14:27

Because he either he had great advisors or he was smart enough to know that this is only going to last so long and I need something that's going to live in perpetuity. You know, I know you talked about eternal things. Obviously, that's the most important, because everything here is you know it's going to end up in dust and ashes at some point.

Rhett: 14:45

Right, you know. But yeah, so I don't know. I just think about that because you know you think about the guy you mentioned. I've seen that, Obviously, you go to any comic con Not that I would ever go to those, but if you were to go to those or you were to go to a car show that comes to your town, there's usually like oh, oh, and meet this actor from like 20 years ago.

Rhett: 15:05

That was like in this show that was somewhat popular, like I was like like one of the one of the uh cast members from the office. Uh, you know, sitcom whatever, not sitcom, but whatever show. Yeah, uh was at the car show that just recently came to birmingham and I was like oh, my gosh oscar nunez, I think his name is oh wow, so he's playing other movies too.

Rhett: 15:24

and I was like, oh, poor os. My gosh Oscar Nunez, I think his name is oh wow, so he's played in other movies too. And I was like, oh, poor Oscar. You would think Oscar is still pretty relevant. I mean, he's a movie you know.

Justin: 15:31

He could make some you know off the road of wills. Yeah, it's still working for him.

Rhett: 15:36

And so I'm like, wow, how long is that going to last? You know I'm not throwing you under the bus, Oscar, but the reality is like. But there's college athletes I remember some of the Alabama football players and whatever that were, One thing that went off to you know NFL for a little bit, I'm like and they set up their little booth, yeah, and it's kind of no one cares.

Justin: 16:00

I don't want to say it's sad, but I'm like God. I hate to live my life that way. It's sad if you're only living on past experiences. That's it.

Rhett: 16:04

And I think, yeah, exactly.

Justin: 16:06

And that's why these.

Rhett: 16:07

I could not imagine being a young actor, kid actor that made a lot of money in a movie. I mean like Macaulay Culkin oh my gosh, yeah, poor kid. Yeah, I mean, think about it Like the things that he has gone through. Now, rightfully, there's choices and all that, and situations and circumstances that have that have come into play. But if you go back to the innocence of childhood and you're just being who you are and you love acting and you're getting a chance to play in a movie and you don't have a clue what's going to happen, but like, yeah, when you think of macaulay culkin, you think of home alone and that's it. It's like how did you grow up? You're're not supposed to be?

Rhett: 16:43

40 years old.

Rhett: 16:43

30 years old whatever You're supposed to be like, eight the rest of your life, cute little Kevin.

Rhett: 16:47

Yeah, you know, and those things happen Right. And so it's like, how do you look? I think leadership is always looking beyond. It's like appreciating the moment of where you are for sure, being thankful and grateful, but always looking for a way to I don't know. I wouldn't say reinvent yourself, but looking for a way to either just be creative and knowing life is long, yeah, and this moment may only be a moment. How can I steward this moment the best that I can in this moment to set me up for the next moment or the next season? So how can I learn here to be better and more effective there? Yeah, that's right, which I think goes along with some of the things that we were talking about before we hit record. And as we were talking, I was like Justin, we've got to hit record like this. I mean, it's blessing me, yeah.

Rhett: 17:30

So we're talking about agendas.

Rhett: 17:31

Yeah, and I know it's kind of been a common thing for us is, like you know, with building relationships and not just building relationships, but in everything that you do, there's something about agendas. I love it when I can walk into a scenario where I don't feel like I'm being duped by somebody else's agenda, but where somebody's actually pouring into me, genuinely, authentically, encouraging me, blessing me, without any what's the word I'm looking for, without anything in return or anything agenda. So I think we can easily stereotype the word agenda as a negative thing. Yeah, right. Oh well, what's your agenda? Like, oh, you're inviting me to this event, so really go ahead and tell me that.

Rhett: 18:14

Like, are you going to try to sign me up for, you know, a timeshare in Jamaica? Right, why do you really want me in this circle with these other pastors? Is it really to build relationships? Or, when I get there, are you going to try to sell me on a missionary that's over in Africa and show me these videos and how we should really be given in support to that? Yeah, right. Or are we really getting together for the agenda of just pouring into each other, encouraging each other, lifting each other up, praying for each other?

Rhett: 18:44

right Like just be straight up. So like I think agenda.

Justin: 18:47

Yeah, I came thinking you really wanted to hang with me, yeah, like there's 20 other people here, yeah, and you got the stage set up and you're introducing me to this guy that we have to.

Rhett: 18:57

I thought you just wanted to hang out with me, but then I find out you. What you really want is me to to buy into this church plan idea and me go serve your church and your vision.

Rhett: 19:05

I thought.

Justin: 19:08

I may have done that.

Rhett: 19:10

In my defense, I will always tell people straight up I'm a pastor, I just moved to your area, we're planning a church and I do want to get to know you. But I want to build life into you and faith into you. But I also want to let you know that the agenda is. We're going somewhere and we'd love for you to be a part.

Rhett: 19:26

Like that was never a hidden fact. I never.

Rhett: 19:28

But at the end of the day, the agenda also was whether or not you do choose to come or not. We want you to know we're here for you. You have family in us, we love you and we ultimately want to see you a part of the body of Christ you were.

Justin: 19:39

That city and you had a passion for that city.

Rhett: 19:42

And it's not about what we're doing per se as a lowercase C church, but as a capital C church how can we help you get involved and planted in a life-giving church somewhere, right? So one of the things that you and I were talking about earlier on was how agendas can be a good thing, but they can be a bad thing, and I think, ultimately, the best agenda we can possibly have and if we're thinking through the leadership lens, that is truly the perspective of how can I help somebody. I go back to an episode that we talked a long time ago. It was like when was the last time I actually sat down with somebody without any kind of agenda of what's in it for me and how they can serve the vision or the mission or whatever I'm trying to accomplish, but really truly just to hear somebody else's story, yeah, to listen not to respond, but to listen, to understand, yeah, and to come alongside. Because, if you think about it, if I think through the lens of everything that I'm trying to accomplish, and everything comes through the filter of my relationship with God. You know God loves me. I've responded to that love, his kindness led me to a place of repentance, of turning and changing and course, directing away from what's in it for me toward what's in it for others. And what's in it for me is this fulfillment, this fullness, this fullness of joy, love that comes from a relationship with God and so, having been redeemed, reconciled to God and now that I'm experiencing His love in me, then the response is that I'm not just experiencing it to hoard it for myself, but to share it. And so now, as one who is a follower of Christ Jesus, now, every relationship, every scenario, every small group, every person that I serve, whether as an employee, or whether they are a member of the church, or whether I'm going to the grocery store I'm walking the aisle, you know and an employee's coming down or whether they're checking me out at a cash register, or whether they're a waiter or a waitress, or whether you're a barista at Starbucks or your favorite coffee shop, my agenda is no longer in how can I build a relationship to where this person fulfills and serves my purpose in what I feel called to? No, my agenda is truly you know what? How can I put a smile on their face? How can I encourage them? Because that brings fulfillment to me.

Rhett: 22:09

Scripture teaches us a generous person will be refreshed. And so it's amazing how we I think we said this statement when we stop looking for platforms to stand upon right, that was it and we start looking at the place of how can I be a platform for others? Yeah, how can I be not a doormat, but how can I be the foundation for someone else to stand upon Right? And it's amazing when you go into every conversation whether it be for the organization you served, or maybe it's at the restaurant with a waiter or your family when you have the perspective of what Jesus Christ did for us. He laid his life down for us, right, to give us life, in other words, death to life. He did that for us, and everything you read in Scripture is if you humble himself, he will lift you up.

Rhett: 23:02

And the world's way is no, you need a platform, you need other people you can stand upon so you can be seen, so you can be heard, so you can accomplish. Jesus says no, no, no. What you need to do is you don't need to stand on a platform, you need to be a platform for others. Yeah, so good.

Rhett: 23:15

And when you become that platform for others and that is your agenda, well then, obviously, the response is number one. God can trust you. You can be a conduit of his wisdom, of his grace, of his understanding, of his knowledge, of the gifts he's poured into you, not so you can hoard it, but you can give it away, so you can be a blessing to others, and the byproduct is you're refreshed. The byproduct is the things that you do have quote, a love and a desire and a dream for to accomplish. They organically come to pass without you really trying to make them happen.

Rhett: 23:45

It's the Ishmael Isaac scenario. And so we've talked a lot about agenda and I know, as we were talking, before this conversation started, it was this matter of you know, and we were just talking and I just said you know, I think agendas are a good thing. Yeah, when filtered through the lens of the, of the right perspective, of knowing you know whether or not I ever accomplished anything, of what I really feel I want to do, if, if the greatest accomplishment is I can put a smile on your face and encourage you and lift you up, then I've won today.

Justin: 24:18

Well, it goes back to what we've talked about before too. Like we live, it's like marketing. Like marketing, marketing is powerful. Like when you see ads, whatever it is, you go after it and it's usually something that's grandiose. You mean that's part of marketing. You got to make it grandiose, like I mean, even if it's we're going to mcdonald's I've seen 20 commercials. I want mcdonald's all of a sudden. Well, all that makes sense in marketing.

Justin: 24:43

But I think that even in the world of, let's say, leadership, we have marketed leadership so much in the sense, leadership's wonderful, but we've marketed it or it can get misconstrued. Where it's the ultimate, this is what you're striving to be and leadership is Right. But the mark and how we, it kind of gets diverted in what, what, the how we market leadership. And so you begin to see these attributes in leadership, which is you're you, maybe you're the boss of this company, you're overseeing this, everything's grand, everything's. You got to be growing into this. And you begin to see leadership as wow, I've got to get to work if I'm going to do that.

Justin: 25:34

But it's technically counterproductive to what you really need people doing to help accomplish the goal. And so if we're leaders and we're all leaders, and I think we all have an ability to be leaders. If we're following the marketing of it, you're going to have a hard time keeping people content at what they're doing, because to be able to make this ship run, you have we all have to be okay with being cogs and the creative side of me Rhett almost started making me shake just then. Oh my gosh, do not call me a cog?

Justin: 26:14

I'm not a cog.

Rhett: 26:14

I don't want to be a cog in a wheel. I ain't a cog in a wheel.

Justin: 26:17

I'm doing my thing and, yes, I think it's kind of twofold. It's like a two-sided coin. We're unique, we're unified and there are unique expressions that you have and if those are surrendered to Christ and you have died, to you because we're not supposed to be living our best life.

Rhett: 26:35

Yeah, and that goes against the grain of I don't know the past 20 years of what we've heard from a lot of ministry leaders.

Justin: 26:41

Oh yeah, You're not supposed to be living your best life. You're supposed to actually be dying to your life and living God's best life that he has for you.

Justin: 26:53

And now you've changed the whole game Because I go back to our message with Pastor Randy, or our podcast episode with Randy Williams, as he was passing the baton to another pastor To another pastor, and he tells the story of he could have been a pastor of a church that was much larger, and his dad, who was even an atheist up until his deathbed, told his son like Randy, you can do better. And Pastor Randy said, yeah, it's technically not my best, but I know where I'm supposed to be. It's actually God's best though. Yeah, because God's best is your best. That has died. Yeah, and so when we're talking about leadership, it's the difference of seeing. Leadership is. Leadership isn't like you ascend and you're talking down to everybody. Leadership means when someone walks in the room and says who's in charge, you stand in front ready to take the bullet. Yeah, leadership is really you're holding the ladder to help others be able to climb and ascend, and the marketing side that we have taken on it breeds a lot of discontentment in our heart.

Rhett: 28:06

It's really good. You mentioned something, a couple of things, and the one thing that stood out to me about comfort and discomfort leadership for me, my best, yeah In, we do.

Rhett: 28:30

Our body, our soul our spirit.

Justin: 28:31

I want it.

Rhett: 28:31

But nothing best comes out of that. We end up indulging in so many different things to where we become lazy and we don't accomplish much and it's just very. It's a place of, ultimately, that, I think, leads to oppression, depression, just so many, which goes that?

Rhett: 28:48

you're like, what do you mean? Like, I know the world paints his picture. That's why, look, if you think about all the actors and we pick on Hollywood, because the world paints that picture as like that's the ultimate. Oh man, if you could be seen and heard and everywhere you go, in the airport, people recognize your name and you know, like that's the ultimate success and you give them all the money in the world and it's the. It's the same thing with rock and roll. You know whatever uh, in music industry. You know they have all the fame in the world, they have all the money in the world, but they're miserable. They're trying to fill every aspect of their life with everything that money and fame. You know in success and whatever leadership, you know now I've got influence like they're miserable because now they're comfortable at a place and they're missing the key ingredient that that really that that creates, you know, character and integrity and fulfillment in their life which.

Rhett: 29:37

Of course we know, is Christ, Jesus who is the rock, the cornerstone, right of everything. And so so for me, I just think, through comfort, you know you're mentioning I don't think Jesus, I don't think Jesus wants us to be comfortable. I read the Bible and I know that gets everything. You know, Jesus didn't die on the cross for our comfort. Jesus died on the cross to bring death into our lives so that through our death we could experience life. Now he doesn't cause pain and doesn't cause trouble. He allows those things to happen because what perseverance develops character and character produces hope. Right, the scriptures.

Rhett: 30:11

So I know this goes against the grain and I think, and I would challenge your thought, because if you actually read the Bible, there's a lot more to say about dying, putting to death, and yes, Christ did that for us, paid for our sins. But now we have a choice to make in leadership and that is not to be really seen and heard, it's to die, but by dying we come to life, which goes against, or I put my hand on my head, I'm like it blows your mind, Because how does this work?

Rhett: 30:41

He makes all things new.

Rhett: 30:42

It's a spiritual principle and so the same as leadership. You lay down your life for others so that they can be successful. That's a true leader man. A true leader is not really seen, they're heard and felt through others that they've poured into behind the scenes. Yeah, because, as you empower someone.

Justin: 31:02

that's such a buzzword right now is empower, empower, Everybody's empowering, but empowering means hey friends, rhett here Just want to take a moment.

Rhett: 31:22

If you're enjoying today's empowering but empowering means challenging you. If it in any way at all is inspiring you to take a next step in any area of your life would you do us a huge favor, could you take a moment, copy the link from your favorite podcast platform, send that link to a friend, you can text it, you can email it and you can even airdrop that puppy over to your coworker right now. Man, that means so much to us. Thank you.

Justin: 31:46

That's such a buzzword right now is empower, empower, Everybody's empowering. But empowering means you remove some of your influence and give it to someone else and empower them to do it. So, as a leader, it's actually not building up your you know wealth over here in the sense of like equity. Yeah, You're actually lessening yourself and they're increasing, yeah, man.

Rhett: 32:12

I could go in so many directions. I've got the Bible pulled up John 13, where Jesus washes his disciples feet. But I've also got this other thought going on too, where I want to kind of go there as well as like this idea of you know, I respect everybody and I respect leaders and I understand this principle. But somebody asked me the other day what do you think leadership is? It's a friend of mine I haven't caught up with in a very long time, yeah, you know, and he's like what is leadership to you? And I said, well, in some circles you will hear that leadership is influence, nothing more, nothing less. That's what it is.

Rhett: 32:46

And I said I'm not saying I disagree with that, but I think it's a lot more complex than that. Yeah, and I said, ultimately it's in complex, in that simplified complexity there can never be such a thing. I said I honestly think leadership is loving God and loving people, and not the world's kind of love, you know, but like it's the spiritual love of a heavenly father in us and through us, and as we experienced that as loving other people, the way he's loved us. And how did he love us? He laid his down, he laid his life down for us, Jesus was surrounded. I told my son that day Jesus was surrounded by thousands, and then he had hundreds, but really there was only 12 people that really intimately knew him and that were willing to lay their lives down in a way like drink my blood, eat my flesh, what?

Justin: 33:32

Yeah.

Rhett: 33:32

This is getting weird and creepy man, you know everybody else kind of disappeared. In the end, even when he was going through his worst moments, jesus was deserted by even the 12. Right. And so so the humility that God had to come as human. Think about that. All God, all powerful, all creator like he's, he's revealing to us as human. Think about that. All God, all powerful, all creator, like he's, revealing to us what we're called to do. He came and humbled himself to become a man. Now, he was all God but man, and he died a horrific death and murder on a cross. He died.

Rhett: 34:02

Follow me as I follow Christ. What did Christ do? He died to the flesh. Now, the spirit of God in him rose him from the dead. He's alive, he's living, he's ascended at the right hand of the Father, having sent us the power of the Holy Spirit, which is the power of wisdom, the power of God, the miraculous that lives within us. But now we have the choice. Follow me as I follow Christ. What did Christ do? He laid down his life. So now we're called to lay down our life for the other.

Rhett: 34:23

You want be what A servant of all. In fact, it actually says you got to be a slave Like you. Give yourself over, not to your own agendas, your own pride, your own arrogance, your own, you know willful things that you long for, but no, you die and become a slave and a servant to all. You want to be the first. You got to be the last. You want to be the greatest. You must be the least.

Rhett: 34:43

And then Jesus says this and uh, you know, he's washing his disciples' feet. This happens, you know, around the Last Supper. He says he got up from the mill talking about the Last Supper, took off his outer clothing, wrapped a towel around his waist and after that he poured water into a basin and he began to wash the disciples' feet. Now, I think this represents so much right in leadership and you can only imagine. Here is the miracle worker, the son of God, the Messiah. What is he doing? He's showing, demonstrating. You know, you want to follow me. This is what it looks like to follow me. I'm going to wash your feet. And, of course, if you paraphrase the story, simon Peter's like what are you doing?

Justin: 35:24

You're not supposed to do this. You're messing with my worldview here. Jesus, You're the king of kings. You're not supposed to be serving us.

Rhett: 35:30

Yeah, lord, are you going to wash my feet? Jesus replied you don't realize now what I'm doing, but later you'll understand. Like I don't get it, you're not getting what's happening here, but later you'll understand. And Peter said no, no, no, no, you shall never wash my feet. You're not called to serve me this way, all this stuff. Right, you shall never wash my feet. And Jesus answered Peter, unless I wash you, you have no part with me. Then, lord Simon, peter replied not just my feet, but my hands and my head as well. Like I'm go all in. Then Jesus answered no, no, those who've had a bath made only to wash their feet, their whole body is clean. Come on, man, you're missing the point.

Rhett: 36:02

It's like I'm not here, you know, we don't have to be.

Rhett: 36:06

We're not getting weird here. Okay, you're clean, though not every one of you, for he knew somebody was going to betray him. That's why he said not everyone was clean, he said. When he had finished washing their feet, he put on his clothes and returned to his place. He said do you not understand what I've done for you? I'm teaching you a leadership principle here. You know you want to be great. This is what it looks like to be great in the kingdom of you call me teacher and Lord, and rightly so, for that's what I am.

Rhett: 36:28

And now that I, your Lord and teacher, have washed your feet leadership go and wash other people's feet. You should, you should, you should also serve people. In this way, I have set you an example that you should do as I have done for you. For, truly, I tell you, no servant is greater than his master, nor is a messenger greater than the one who sent him. So now that you know these things, you will be blessed. You want to live your best life. Get down and wash some people's feet. That's right, which was the job right, which was the job of really the lowliest servant in the house, because, if you think, in those days with sandals and dirt and poo all over the streets. Oh yeah, it was nasty, it was gross. And so people washed their feet in that culture in that day to get all the grit and the grind and the nasty off their feet before they went into the house to make sure the house stayed clean.

Justin: 37:18

Yeah, and you take that back from the beginning. I mean, that is when the church was founded. Jesus, obviously, is the foundation, he's the rock, the apostles. They became the pillars, yeah, and their life wasn't in the worldly way of living their best life, like it was full of surrender, dying to their self and, of course, in their case, literally dying to help establish the church. And the model that you get to see through this is leadership.

Justin: 37:54

If you, getting back to what I said a while ago, advertisement if we advertise leadership is this grandiose thing. We're missing the real point of what leadership is. Yeah, and we're missing out on the real opportunities. If we build leadership up as you go, get it while you can, you build the biggest team. You become that football player in the mall one day who had no baton to pass or nothing, built up with the momentum of those days.

Justin: 38:22

Getting back to my boys a while ago, what I'm doing in life right now is me and Summer put a lot of energy into our marriage and our kids and they're not always going to be in the house and there's going to be things we get to do that we don't get to do now.

Justin: 38:37

But one thing that will be said is mom and dad are pillars in our life because we built that foundation to lead them in that way. That foundation to lead them in that way when they leave and my leadership equity in life is not there, I will still be a pillar and a foundation. And going back to the cog in the will statement, it takes humility to recognize I need everybody around me to actually accomplish what not me, but what we're trying to accomplish. And my role here in leader, or my role in here as assistant, or my role as boss or my role as an executive, whatever it is, there's not like this, greater role. And the reason that I even bring light to that is if you advertise something as you need to go eagerly pursue that, you're going to breed discontentment.

Rhett: 39:37

Yeah.

Justin: 39:37

And you're not going to appreciate the average everyday moment. And that's where the gospel, that's where the dreams that you think are chased in the stars. But the dreams are right there in the everyday, ordinary moments, and you'll end up missing it and you'll find yourself being like the Pharisee who is looking at the sinners, if you will and there are big sins over there that we can name in the Bible like oh, they're living that lifestyle, or oh, they're doing this, or oh, they're doing that, and you don't recognize. You're the Pharisee right now who's living off so much greed because you're in this selfish agenda pursuit that you're running right past God and you're running right past people because you've been branded, you've had it marketed. That leadership is to go get what's yours, and it's actually the complete opposite. God has an, as Dallas Willard calls it, the upside down kingdom.

Rhett: 40:43

It works opposite.

Justin: 40:43

We are pillars. It works opposite. We are pillars. That is what true leadership is. You're a pillar that will last forever. You might.

Justin: 40:53

Let's say there's thousands watching you right now. Let's say there's tens, twenties, hundreds, it doesn't matter Whoever's full attention. You got right now because you have the influence and you're in that role right now, or that authority or whatever it is, and you're holding it more because you have positional authority. You don't have relational authority that will go away one day. And if you've invested everything you have into your position and your desire to go chase something and you see your authority in that kind of leadership vein, you're going to be the football player standing in the mall and nobody's going to be in line.

Justin: 41:32

But if you would turn that kingdom upside down and recognize that God has purposed you no more than anybody else, but he's purposed you with a special mission and that you're going to need every bit of people that are around you. And it's going to involve maybe leading in the sense of being out front, but it also might be leading by being one of many in a space. But what you're doing is you're operating completely in the purpose that God created you from the foundations of the earth and you're truly like a David with the sling and you're not walking around in Saul's armor, but what you're doing is you're truly like a David with the sling and you're not walking around in Saul's armor, but what you're doing is you're building a foundation that, when that heyday is gone, you're still going to be the pillar to the people that you invested, without selfish ambition or vacancy, but you considered others, as the Bible talks about in Philippians. You took a genuine interest in others.

Rhett: 42:30

So many different directions we could take this, but when we're talking about marketing and how marketing in, you know we'll take social media. All I can think about is social media right now and the young adults who are growing up in this generation of social media. It's everything you see, see, see, see, highlight, highlight, highlight, highlight, platform, platform, platform, platform. Now, through the context of the church and leadership. You know, I will speak Now. This can apply in business as well. You see, ceo, ceo, ted Talk, ted Talk, ted Talk, ceo. You know Fortune 500, company three, whatever. You know. So, like context, you know, put it in the context that you live in, right, but for me, my heart goes out to these. You know young people who want to be in ministry because right now, what they're seeing in the world and what's being put in front of them via algorithms and all this different things is made up.

Rhett: 43:16

I can put together a really good message and I can communicate well and I can get the lights and I can get the stage looking right and I have the right graph at the right logo, the. You know the. The website, the cool, the website, the cool. The video, the B-roll, the photos. You know, come on young people. You know what I'm saying. Then I will be successful as a pastor and have influence and people.

Rhett: 43:33

I can speak into people's lives and lead them to Jesus and see ultimate life change. And I'm going to tell you right now what you're seeing on Instagram, what you're seeing on Facebook all of that is a lie. It is a picture of what we in our minds look at as a mountaintop experience of what we think success is as a leader. Jesus came to throw that into the face of the Pharisees. That same type of thing existed in that day and age and he came and he spoke to it Like, unless your righteousness surpasses that of the Pharisee, you're not going to enter the kingdom of heaven. And they're like what in the world? Because they look amazing, yeah, but she's like. But yeah, you're looking at the outside, they're whitewashed tombs, yeah.

Justin: 44:10

They got the flowing roads.

Rhett: 44:11

Yeah, man, they got a hundred people following them on Instagram. They got a YouTube channel. They're making you know monetization off of every stream. They've written a book, all that stuff. They look great Right Now. I'm not saying the people that are out there doing that are not, you know, righteous in their ways of doing it. The Lord has opened up doors for them. Obviously, I'm not throwing the baby out with the bathwater, okay, but what I am saying that is, if in your mind, you're thinking that's the ultimate, you're going to be so discontented when you get there and you mentioned that when you were talking about discontent because you get there, you experience that you realize this is not what ministry is. What ministry is is getting down in the dirt with people who are dealing with issue after issue, and I call it. If you don't like shoveling from sheep, you don't need to be in the ministry.

Rhett: 44:58

And I didn't say the word and I didn't bleep the word Like I just. I mean, I didn't say the word, that's why I went quiet, but like, if you don't like shoveling from sheep, then you're in the wrong place, right?

Rhett: 45:11

Because death to life in us and through us, and we're called to lay our lives down for what? The other people, yeah, and not to lay their lives down so we can stand on top of them, so we can be seen and that we can be heard. Now it doesn't mean that when we lay our lives down for people, that we won't be given a platform where we can speak and help, but the reason we're given the platform that is truly influential and that will last more than just a season, and then we'll be the pastor setting up our own little card table signing autographs for the book we wrote 30 years ago, right.

Justin: 45:42

Right.

Rhett: 45:43

No, no, no. It's when we learn to lay our life down with people and get into the dirt of discontent. You know, the dirt is that washing people's feet, not physically but spiritually, yeah. Sitting down without an agenda and thinking, man, I got another meeting after this, I got to go. Get to your point. Get to your point. Get to your point. No, yeah, you know what. So what if I don't make that appointment?

Rhett: 46:06

You're the most important thing to me right now. I know we've got 30 minutes but, man, if we open up and we get into it, you know what? I'll push everything back because you're the most. You are the person in front of me right now. I'm looking into your eyes, you're getting vulnerable with me and I'm going to share and I'm going to impart and I'm going to do everything that I can to serve you so that you are successful moving forward, or or even how about this?

Justin: 46:25

Just create space in your calendar, create the margin that it might be 30 minutes, but you know you could give an extra 30. 100%, and you just sit with them there and give them that time.

Rhett: 46:35

I serve a pastor who and I love it and I'm seeing it, and this is what I see when I read Jesus' word is that we've got to go over here, we've got to do this, we've got to no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, just this moment, and I'm like man. I just think that the world's way of doing things, man, is completely opposite. It's the upside down leadership you were talking about and you read scripture. You see how Jesus led. And I'm not saying you know, obviously, make margin. You got to honor your boss, honor your time, honor the people you report to those things. So I'm not saying go rogue and all that, but what I am saying is, when you're with somebody, be present in the moment and don't be looking to the next, Don't pat somebody on the shoulder and tell them it's good to see you, when you've already looked into the next person.

Justin: 47:39

So, leadership is getting Walk slowly through the crowd.

Rhett: 47:42

Yeah man, walk slowly, be aware, and in the only agenda we're called to have, thinking of agenda, reading scripture and through that context, is that it's serving people, man, the way that Christ served us. Yeah, you know, I've heard some people they're not going to get on the bus. Then I'm just going to run over them until I'm going to get the right people on the bus and I'll run over however many people I need to with the bus in order to accomplish what we need to accomplish. I'm like, well, that is not Christ Jesus' way.

Justin: 48:07

Yeah, and, by the way, I've been that guy before If they're not on the bus he lifts them up. Yeah.

Rhett: 48:18

And he finds another bus for them to ride so that they can ultimately go to the destination in which they're called to be and fulfill the purpose that God has for them. And it might not be with your quote organization that is, you know, highly and exalted. And whatever it might be with, it might be it's going to be different, because we're not all called to look the same. Yeah, and I think it's the body of Christ you notice that you're like this thing is very hot for me, man.

Justin: 48:37

I love it For me. I'm a very I try to live in the balances and very much so. The marketing that we've talked about, it's just a lot of this stuff's good, a lot of what you were talking about, too socials, like a lot of this stuff. It can be great platforms. It's, though it needs.

Justin: 48:59

You gotta be able to balance sides to this, because it's a shadow side, you're just going for if you don't watch out and you're talking to somebody who or the guy talking to you right now has lived this before. I've been the guy who's had to repent, yeah me too.

Justin: 49:13

You get so focused on pursuing something and it's kind of been hijacked from the purity of the call of God into now the pursuit of ooh, I would like to attain this, and that's where I feel that selfish agenda rise up. It's alluring and we can pursue this and I don't want to say all that's bad. It's where is your heart in this? Because if we're going to use the word market, there needs to be.

Rhett: 49:47

What's the motive of the heart for the marketing and?

Justin: 49:50

yes. So there needs to be a fair shake to see that the person who is pastoring a church of 80 people and that was the capacity that God gave them that might be God's best for their life. And you who feel a calling in your heart, if you have maybe experienced the growth of great things like, celebrate that without comparison. Celebrate that as you can also be in that. We're talking church now. Obviously, I'm qualifying this now, as Rhett said a while ago as well, that is our world, so we're going to talk more into that.

Justin: 50:28

But you can see the large number, enjoy that, be a part of it. I've had the privilege to be a part of it for my goodness, 24 years and I've loved it. But what I've been able to maintain once I repented, as I told you earlier, that person who's got 80, 90, 100, 200, that is as beautiful an expression as this thing, this mammoth of a church. They're both an expression of the body of Christ, and so you can't compare. So those who are giant can't say they're not fulfilling their ultimate call. The ones who are at 200, they need to be careful not to say, well, you can't really be a church of that size.

Justin: 51:11

There's a balance that we should be appreciating, which is obedience, the body of Christ, and it requires a heck of a lot of humility to be able to do that, but contentment to give. I almost want to just say we market the grandiose stuff and it's easy to buy into that, but I want to proclaim where we, where I want to market the simple stuff, the ordinary stuff, and I know you've heard that with all these episodes that it's the ordinary, seemingly insignificant things in life that are the most significant things that you're ever going to be a part of. And those are the things. Whether you're big or you're small, it's those what seem to be insignificant, but you were devoted to it.

Justin: 51:58

Those are the things that when you become a pillar, they will remember you when everybody else has long forgot you. And what that is? Not everybody needs to remember you. You need to be a good steward of who God has put in your life and make an impact on who those are, whether it's 10 or whether it's 1,000. Someone's going to forget you and that's okay. You don't have to pursue to be the end-all, be-all, but you do want to be a faithful steward, whether you were given the five talents the two talent or the one talent?

Rhett: 52:35

Yeah, the five and the two. You know I love Jesus's response, or God's response was that, hey, good, well done, good and faithful, I'm going to put you over many. Yeah, and he didn't say that the five had more, and he didn't say that the guy had three. That was faithful had. He just said, hey, I want to put you over many things. In other words, like in the kingdom of heaven, when we come together, there's going to be responsibility for you. That's going to be so joyous and it's going to be a lot, because I can trust you with what I give you. You're a conduit for which I've given to you. You didn't hoard, but you allowed everything to go, move in you and through you and through you. You did that with a five, you did that with a three, and the five and the three. The outcome of the promise was the same. It's the parable that was like the workers in the field. The workers in the field that you know. Hey, whatever the the I don't know if it's a denary or whatever, but let's call it 10 bucks hey, I'm going to pay you $10 to work all day. You started at seven. The guys that of the day, I'm going to pay you $10, right, I'm going to give you all the same, because you were willing and you were faithful and you were obedient. Hey, way to go. So well done.

Rhett: 53:34

And I think the perspective of the smaller and the larger, whether that's a small company to a Fortune 500 company, it's the same thing. Whether it's a small church or a large church, the enemy would like to come in and bring a divide to say, well, if you're the smaller company, look at what you're not doing and what you could accomplish. Right, these guys shouldn't be growing. You should just multiply out smaller, smaller, smaller and the big guys can be looking at the small guys and the CEO coming look how lame they are for not. No, at the end of the day, did you do what was in your heart to serve people? Well, great. Same thing with large church, small church. It's like are you being obedient to what God's put in your heart? And, ultimately, are you content that God is enough for you? God has to be your enough. It's not about a number.

Justin: 54:14

I love when I run into somebody and they're working something that's average I mean it's not like the CEO of something, but I love it when they're working their job and they seem like the happiest most joyful person Like that impacts me.

Justin: 54:32

Yeah, and I try to keep my eyes turned on where I'm not walking in arrogance, cause when I'm in arrogance I miss those people. I was just talking to someone who's on the team that I'm on. I oversee pastoral care at Church of the Highlands and what that looks like for me is I get to have a lot of hangouts, like, like me and you would hang out. I get to hang out with our staff and help serve them, help equip whatever they need or be there for them in a time of need. Yeah, and I was just talking to one of the people that I work with and I was just saying cause I just had this thought they're doing so much and their strength is they're very support. They're on there while I'm out and about. They're on their computers like nine to five and and they love it. That's their gifting that they have. And I just it was it was actually yesterday walked up to him and I said you know, like what I do wouldn't be possible if you didn't love what you actually did, you make such an impact.

Justin: 55:31

Yeah, I love to tell people they're leaders and I'm not taking this away. I believe everybody's a leader in their own way, right. But I used to struggle with that word because it's almost like I had to set it up to tell you why you're a leader. But there was a word and I've said it a couple of times already, but me and my wife will talk and it just stands out to me and it's like, oh yes, that's leader and this, and I don't have to really qualify it and you know, just looking at that person, I'm able to say like you are a pillar of this team. And there's something about that word pillar that I love because it can be a leader, but it might be someone in the normal way. People think of leadership without me having to qualify that everybody is one. Just scratch all that for a minute. You might not be a leader, that's out front of everybody, but everybody could aspire to be a pillar. Well, what do pillars?

Rhett: 56:34

do they support? They support, in other words, they lay their lives down to see other people lifted. And so, when our agenda is to be a pillar for other people to rise at Front of my Planet Church in Colorado, we rise by lifting others.

Rhett: 56:47

Love it.

Rhett: 56:48

And that's the whole point. That's, that's our agenda. Back to the agenda, back to leadership. You know, is it influenced? Yes, but how is? How do you gain that influence? Well, in kingdom of the lord, where there's fulfillment, you know it's laying your life down for other people. Who did I?

Justin: 57:03

bypass. That could have actually been one of the greatest god relationships, exactly Because I exalted myself and I didn't slow down to realize we are equal. And, oh my gosh, I could learn a lot from this person.

Rhett: 57:15

And so my hope, through this conversation, is that we can shed some light on things.

Rhett: 57:18

Maybe you think you know, but you don't know because you don't know, you've not been there.

Rhett: 57:22

And so if you're young and you're thinking of aspiration and you're looking at influence through marketing and now, granted, it has its space and it's not a bad thing, but the whole idea of serving and leadership isn't what you see on Instagram.

Rhett: 57:36

It's the in the nitty gritty, in the dirt, washing people's feet spiritually, not physically, to get into people's lives, to sit there without the only agenda of how can I serve this person, how can I honor this person, how can I listen to understand and not to respond and not to have all the answers, but say, hey, man, I love you, I'm here and I'm sorry, yeah, and that must hurt, man, I want you to know you're not alone, that alone. Well, my goodness, the life that comes from that and the leadership opportunities that continue to present themselves, because you're not in it for you, you're in it for others, and that's the whole goal, and that's what Christ did for us, and that's, I think, that's the agenda that I would encourage myself first to carry into every scenario of my life, whether it be creating websites or serving a church with preaching or worship leading or whatever it might be like. Like, how can I serve people and really and I make this so much about anything else other than how can I help them be better?

Justin: 58:33

So this episode is really the one you can go back to when you're like I am and like Rhett said he is.

Rhett: 58:40

Yeah, this is a reminder episode to ourselves.

Justin: 58:42

When you've got to remind yourself that our goal, we get the privilege to serve at the pleasure of Christ.

Rhett: 58:50

Yeah.

Justin: 58:51

And we lift up others.

Rhett: 58:53

We do, we rise, we point people to Jesus, yeah, we rise by lifting others up, yeah, and so my encouragement to you, to myself, is as a reminder that, no matter what we do, it's not about us, it's about Christ, first and foremost, him, in and through us, to serve others the way he served us. On the next episode of Armchair, authentic, the one and only Jim Wideman.

Rhett: 59:19

Tommy Barnett is one of my heroes. Brother Tommy used to say to build a great church. I think the same thing is true with any ministry you find a need and you fill is. You find a need and you fill it. You find a hurt and you heal it. That was really what I'm still doing today is just looking for what are the needs that aren't being met, what are the hurts that we need to heal? And Jesus is so faithful. It doesn't matter if you're talking to four-year-olds or 40 or 50, or the word of God works. You know, it was at Birmingham, there at the cathedral, when the Lord started dealing with me. He said keep handing out fish sandwiches, just don't forget to teach people to fish. And that's when we started training folks as well as just doing services for kids. And the big switch in my ministry I never wanted to be one of those guys that tell people what they used to do.

Rhett: 1:00:18

Justin and I cannot wait for that next conversation, but until then, we hope you have a great day, enjoy your week and remember if you're enjoying the episodes. Could you do us a huge favor? Copy that link, text it to a friend, tell somebody what's up. Armchair Authentic. Let's go All right, guys. We hope you have a great day, god bless, and we look forward to having you right here next week Monday on Armchair Authentic. Thank you.