Rhett: 0:00

One of the greatest gifts we can give ourselves is the gift of self-awareness. You've got to have somebody help you with your blind spots to see things that you don't see.

Justin: 0:07

We have certain eyes where we see things. There might be another leader who they don't see it, and you can get frustrated at them. Like God, I wish they would just see that people are going through this, but they're in a different wiring and it might not be that it's them who needs to see it. You're the eyes that see this. It might not be that it's them who needs to see it. You're the eyes that see this. Now go make a difference in the people who are coming around you. God will usually take your pain and turn it into fresh purpose.

Rhett: 0:32

What is going on, friends? Welcome back to another episode of the podcast, with your friends Rhett and Justin, right here at Armchair. Authentic. It's always great to have you along for the ride today. We cannot wait to jump into the conversation, so we're jumping into it right now.

Justin: 0:52

Well, Rhett, it's good to be with you for another week of Armchair Authentic. Yeah, man, it just never gets old man.

Rhett: 0:58

Never gets old. We are constantly in new digs. Over the past couple of conversations, it seems that way.

Justin: 1:04

Yeah, this is nice, maybe because it's finally in my living room.

Rhett: 1:08

It is in your living room.

Justin: 1:10

But yeah, we're in a new space today and it's nice. I mean, we're literally sitting in my two armchairs in my living room. Yes, and we'll see if we're going to be authentic.

Rhett: 1:19

It's only taken three years for me to walk through the front door of your house, since I've lived here, red, I can't believe that. How good of friends are we? I mean, come on, no one no one would guess that.

Justin: 1:33

Nobody would guess that you have not been in my house. Yeah, we moved into this house in 2021 and here we are in 2025, four years later, you're. I mean, you came to the property one time because we recorded something. You borrowed a piano one time. I met you outside of your garage door. Yeah, I show you the pool. Before we walked around when we had some stuff ready, but you've never walked in my doors.

Rhett: 1:58

No, today was the first. It's so wild. Yeah, you literally gave me a tour of you know, your downstairs or your three-story house when you're at the wild? Yeah, you literally gave me a tour of your three-story house at the basement, the first and second, so the living areas.

Justin: 2:09

Yeah, so we're sitting in the living room right now.

Rhett: 2:12

And so I'm glad that you're finally here. You've done a lot of good work here. That, I've been told I don't know what it looked like before this house is a blessing.

Justin: 2:24

And we've got our podcast equipment back up and running. And that's what's so strange because it's summertime with us. The kids are at um, are two youngest, are at VBS. Summer is out actually writing. She's putting a lot of focus on her writing now that she's finished her doctorate. And so the house. I'm not used to having the house to myself, and so this is really, really cool. And then my older boys. They're kind of doing their own thing. So we have this space, just me, you yeah and my dog lito.

Justin: 2:53

So this is fun for me to actually I can't believe you're finally in the living room well, it's been it's not been intentional. No, you're going to be coming over you, linda and max pool party. It's all good this summer.

Rhett: 3:04

This summer it really like you know. You get to a certain age where you don't think about these things. Life is just what it is. I come to yours all the time because it's the studio.

Justin: 3:11

Yeah, there you go and so, but yeah, so, and we'll have you guys over, because me and you we got to kind of we're pumped.

Justin: 3:26

You say that, as if we have a lot on the calendar, not a lot, not a lot. No, no, no. But we're beginning to prepare. There you go, and so we'll get to go back to our church that really we started our journey with in this summer, and so we've talked about bringing potentially even getting our oldest boys to be a part of it with us, so that's going to be fun. We need to have you come here, we'll get some rehearsals and we'll just see if it's the right flow.

Rhett: 3:50

Yeah, Maybe, maybe not. Well, you know, my son's been playing bass for a long time. I call him a closet bass player. Yeah, he's been teaching himself and I mean every parent is proud, but like I know music enough to know when somebody has a grace gift towards something and when somebody doesn't. But there are people who can work really, really, really, really, really hard and get really, you know, get good. But like he's just like oh, I'm like what, like dude?

Justin: 4:18

seriously Natural, natural ability.

Rhett: 4:22

It's like what? I mean, anybody can do that. I'm like, no, not everybody can do it. But what do you mean? It's just easy. I'm like, no, not everybody can do that and have the tone that you have, yeah, and so trying to get him out of that closet-based player into a platform and I don't know how cool would it be for him to have that opportunity on the same platform that you and I had the platform.

Rhett: 4:44

You know, like we're leading worship and our sons are a part of being on the same platform. We had our very first opportunity.

Justin: 4:53

I think that's what's cool because we'll be, instead of the big room that it's always been in, they've taken it back to the chapel, which, ironically, before we were ever there back in the late 70s, that's where their church met and then it grew and they began to step into this other place. Well, he's going through almost like it feels like a relaunch, and so he's taken everybody back to the chapel until it hits a certain growth point and then they look to shift it because it is better when you're in a room and it feels good. But evidently they've done a lot to this room. But what makes it special to us that we're talking about that's the same chapel that our youth met in back in 1993.

Justin: 5:37

We're 15 and 16 years old. We were writing songs every day where we'd come back after school. We were writing songs every day where we'd come back after school. We'd go to the church and we've said it before church rats and hanging out, not knowing what we're doing. Either we're writing songs or we're looking at all the equipment they have and we're plugging in quarter inch cables and really upsetting the worship leader on Wednesday nights.

Justin: 6:00

At that time, shout out to Scott.

Rhett: 6:03

Muncher, I couldn't have even told you what an xlr cable is no I just knew that this thing that has three little things on the inside of it matches those three little holes and connect them and, yeah, something happens. And yes, quarter inch. What does that mean? Yeah like eighth inch. What does that mean?

Justin: 6:20

yeah, well, no idea what that means we were learning, we were just like plug, oh that fit in there.

Rhett: 6:24

Okay, what does that do? Get up? Okay, that that's not that doesn't, that doesn't work right, let's not do that. Oh, what are all these little slider buttons do? Oh, there's your eq.

Justin: 6:33

Oh the one on the far left makes it sound okay.

Rhett: 6:37

The one on the far right is really high intensity.

Justin: 6:39

Okay, you know, and then you would, just you piece it together, you would. You were always more the techie guy who would get in that world and try to learn to understand it. I'm just a bud musher, that was probably because your favorite Ninja Turtle was Donatello. Donatello Mine was Raphael.

Rhett: 6:54

Yeah, but it wasn't because of that. I just love the staff.

Justin: 6:57

Yeah, and then they nerded him out over time. I'm like come on man Seriously To this point. Now he's got glasses. I mean, come on y'all. He's like I ain't got a penile.

Rhett: 7:06

I'm like I'm a D. Yeah, let me kick his butt with a staff.

Justin: 7:09

Just let him be a Ninja Turtle, please.

Rhett: 7:11

Yeah, can you just let him kick booty, kick turtle shell, but I remember turtle shell?

Justin: 7:26

yeah, absolutely, but. But at that time I'll give him a call out again. Scott muncher was our worship leader, but he would come in. Yeah, I'm about to brag on him, so I gotta say this first he would get so irked with us because we had messed with everything, because we didn't know. We just kind of took freedom. We pull speakers down from this closet and we just we acted like we owned the place every time he came in it.

Justin: 7:43

It was something different he was like what is going on? But the shout out I want to give to Scott is I mean, he was the worship leader. It was him on a keyboard, no band, it was nothing. And some of the sweetest early memories of worship to me it was that I mean, he had just a gift, he could do the upbeat songs and we're having a great time. But when he would just take it slow, those worship moments were really powerful and I've said it before, I have such a loyalty to me, those people who were a part of those early years. So, scott man, you are a phenomenal, phenomenal worship leader and I'm grateful for the role that you played in my life and I am sorry that we would always move the cables around and you had to get off work and come to lead us and it wasn't ready for you.

Rhett: 8:34

So anyway, the reason I say that is Well, had we not moved everything around and done what we did, we wouldn't have learned what we've learned.

Justin: 8:41

And you know.

Rhett: 8:42

So part of me is like I'm kind of like I'm glad we learned what we've learned. So part of me is like I'm kind of like I'm glad we did what we did.

Justin: 8:51

And it's part of him being able to adjust and learn how to develop young guys and maybe walk in a little bit of whatever he needed to grow in.

Rhett: 8:58

I'm not saying you did, but I'm just saying and technically, it wasn't his call.

Justin: 9:01

It was, at that time, david Berry, who is the youth pastor.

Justin: 9:05

And he gave us permission. Y'all go for it. I'm like thank you. Thank you, david, and so what David did, though, is he's the one who gave us that first opportunity in that room on the stage, and so that brings us full circle to what you said a while ago. We love creating moments. We try not to force them, but we did think. Number one it's cool that we're going to go and lead worship. It's more like, I guess, like a youth. They'll have more like a youth kind of like a reunion of old, but there's also going to be the church service that goes on. We're going to be leading worship in that room, yeah, which used to be the youth room. Now it's the main auditorium.

Justin: 9:47

That's pretty cool so it's very surreal that we'll be on that stage 32 years later. We were on that stage and it was our first opportunity, kind of as we've been in the choir days, you know, at school and all that, but our first opportunity is really worship leaders or artists to get and actually perform a piece of a song that we wrote. And now thinking that our boys, potentially we're not forcing you boys could actually be on like a bass and percussion to accompany us.

Rhett: 10:20

That would just be so cool, you mentioned something when we were writing songs, it wasn't like we were writing songs in the effort or with intentionality of thinking we were actually going to sing these songs. We had never really been on a platform.

Justin: 10:37

No.

Rhett: 10:37

We were never given a platform Right, so it wasn't like we were like oh, we're writing this because we know an opportunity is coming up in two months. We want to solidify this. It was literally like we just love God and we're opening up the Psalms and we're singing and we're trying to create melodies and we're writing, and then David Berry walks by and here's something that we're doing.

Rhett: 10:54

He's like oh guys, this sounds good. Y'all want to sing that next Wednesday? We're like what? First of all, you weren't supposed to hear that. Secondly, we're nowhere near ready and we were not planning on this. Sure you are. Oh yeah, you got this guys.

Justin: 11:07

Come on, do it.

Rhett: 11:08

It's next Wednesday and I'm grateful. I mean think about that.

Justin: 11:13

I'm grateful.

Rhett: 11:14

Thank you, david, because there are a lot of churches nowadays that would have never given you and I the opportunity with where we were undeveloped. No that would have never given you and I the opportunity with where we were undeveloped. No, I mean, I'm grateful for it to give us that and it poured so much into us. It was like I don't know, he's like man. Yeah, y'all got this, but I was so nervous man, I was so nervous it was it might've.

Rhett: 11:41

Well, it's a televised event. There's going to be millions of people that are watching. You're going to be up there on that stage with all these incredible artists and like the nerves and the anxiety that would go along with something like that, and I mean that we're talking what? 1,500 people at the time. Yeah yeah, talking about we got to get on our knees and pray for 24 hours a day before this moment.

Justin: 12:03

We got to be ready, we did, we really did. I mean and that's the cool thing, because Says a lot about who we are, I guess.

Justin: 12:09

There was a confidence from Christ, I would say, yeah, but there wasn't confidence as an artist, because it was so new, we really had just began playing and we really had just began expressing ourself musically. And for me it's like I didn't. There was an innocence there that I didn't ever get on the stage. I didn't overanalyze. Yeah, I was nervous, I felt the weight of something, but I was grateful for the opportunity, but I didn't know how it was going to go. I didn't know what the response? Because no one knew that we played or sang. Not one person. No, because when we got on that stage, I mean I had to have a microphone by the guitar hole, like I didn't even have anything to plug in. And and I'm playing guitar, you're singing and I'm singing. We each shared a verse. We'd kick in on the chorus with harmony you, um, lord, send your fire. Lord, send your fire. Yeah, yeah, set us a fire, lord, let us, let us be a burning blaze.

Rhett: 13:12

Yes, and so I mean you think of the lyrics for a second. I mean, it was our heart was like oh, we just, all we care about is you.

Justin: 13:24

We just want to be used by you and pointing others to discover how good he is Cause we had just discovered how amazing like that you can have real didn't know you could have relationship like this. Yeah, it was good and and we, just we just went up there Relationship and the power.

Justin: 13:41

Yes, the authority of Christ's name. And then we had immediate affirmation once it was done because you strike the last chord and I don't think my mind even felt the pressure of what if they don't clap? What if they do clap? There was nothing. It was almost just like come up and sing the song, and we did, but yet when I heard the applause of that of that room, yeah, it felt like a million people it really did, because you had clapping, you had screaming, you just had people, just because I'm encouraging you and I I'm never I think there was this moment of like.

Rhett: 14:17

Oh crap, like it's that american idol audition. These people get up. You're thinking is this going to be bad? Is this going to be good? Yeah, we like these guys, these guys, but like we, we don't. We'd. Hopefully they don't crash and burn, right. They look nervous, right.

Rhett: 14:31

I'm glad I didn't know that you know what I'm saying, and they're like like deep breath in and then they start singing this like, and then their mouths kind of open and drop and they're kind of head turned looking at a us sideways like eyes open, a little bit, going wow. Not that it was great, but it was like I wasn't expecting this yeah, so the expectation.

Justin: 14:49

Thankfully it was really low.

Rhett: 14:50

So the expectation was really, really low so because it was so low all of a sudden. Now it's like you know when, by the time it's over, they're like they didn't crash and burn, they made it, we like them and and and yeah. So maybe you know I'm trying to downplay this a lot, but it was very but it was so encouraging, yeah, and it was our moment and here we are.

Justin: 15:12

This is all about sharing stories as podcast and we're trying to at least share a story to let you kind of get inside of us to learn what it was like. But yeah, if you would have really stood there and saw the room, you would have probably thought. I've used this analogy, uh, several times, but the movie christopher robin when you have, like winnie, the pooh and tigger and all these characters are, they're in this raging storm yeah and then it shows the third person view of what christopher robin's seeing, and it's like a little creek.

Justin: 15:45

And it's like uh Robin's seeing and it's like a little Creek and it's like, uh, what's the big deal? It's like little drippings of, like a Creek.

Rhett: 15:51

It's like two, yeah, it's like an inch of water. That's what you got. I guarantee you that's what you would see if you actually saw the moment through your own just human eyes.

Justin: 16:00

You're seeing a little Creek and we're in this storm of like, wow and wonder. But if we can invite you into what we're experiencing, we're trying to help create one of those moments, because chances are a lot of people listening. You've had the moment. You know exactly what we're talking about. There has been that moment of awakening for you where it just caught you off guard. You didn't expect the affirmation or the confidence, or almost like a deployment, a stepping into something fresh, because we walked off that stage that night and it felt different.

Rhett: 16:39

It felt different. For sure, there was an affirmation, and in hindsight, it's 2020. Like, I did not know what my love language was at the time you know I was unaware of a lot of things, but affirmation was one of my love languages and so it was like, oh my gosh, you know, yeah, um, this feels great. But then there in lies, a purpose that was discovered. As you were saying this, I was starting to just kind of think through this.

Rhett: 17:07

A purpose in life, meaning a grace gift was unveiled, a gift of music, a gift of singing and writing or whatever it might be, and from that point forward, it was like, oh man, this is why I made, and it started crossing the line into this is my identity, and I would not have been able to put a thumbprint on that at that age. But looking back, it was like, okay, this gift that I have is now bringing affirmation and therefore there's value, not only for god, but value. Now I'm being valued, now I'm being seen in a way that's like, oh you know, different, and I guess the journey of identity is a long life. It never journey it God.

Rhett: 18:02

Yeah, God's in heaven going, isn't that awesome I create. But that's not who you are. But yet that's that moment. I would. I would say that I would. I didn't really learn that my gifting is not who I am. It's just a part of what I, of who I am, until later in life.

Justin: 18:19

It produced these great results and you began to do it more and you continue to have. These great results begin to be produced and over time, after you've had many successes, you began to look at that as the value point and you began to see it as that, like that, right there. That is that's why I was made yeah and it is a part of, yeah, the great maestro. Jesus, yes, is conducting, yeah, the bride of christ. He's making sure that giftings are poured out.

Rhett: 18:53

But we can so easily misinterpret at some point where it becomes our identity we get purpose and identity messed up, yeah, as if our purpose is our why? Yeah, you know, and, uh, you, uh, you know. I know we talked about this a couple of conversations ago about identity, purpose and assignment, and it's really easy to get those twisted and and maybe we can dive a little bit deeper with some of that today- if we want to go a little bit further.

Rhett: 19:19

But when I'm thinking through the lens of identity, I wish it would have been so nice for someone to sit us down and I say us, maybe just me, and go okay, hey, man, and just coach me through this. Yeah, so you go, hey man, what you guys did, like man, that's awesome, but I want you to understand something that's not who you are. Yeah, it's a gift, but that gift does not define you. A gift is just one of many that God wants to use to bring glory to him, right, but also to encourage people, but not to build yourself up as if you're something special, yeah, and. And to to really kind of lean me, lean into me, to help coach and develop me into my identity as a child of God, not a person who stands on a platform and sings. My purpose is to bring the kingdom rule of God in every situation, and so if I'm on the platform, it's to bring the kingdom rule of God in that situation, not because I'm gifted, but because I'm a child of God, I'm loved by God, I'm a beloved son created in his image, and I get to sing and I get to get better at that, but not to get them twisted to think, oh, this is who I am, this is, and if I'm not doing this, well then then what's my value? Yeah, right, and it's so easy to get our identity twisted and you know, you might not have ever dealt with that on a level of maybe your performer or on a platform. I mean, it could be with a job title, it could be with, you know, yes, a certain amount of money in the bank, or whatever it might be.

Rhett: 20:54

Hey guys, red here Just want to take a moment and say thank you to every single one of you who have taken the time to follow us on social media. Now, if today is your first time to join us for an episode, man, we want to say welcome, friends, it's so good to have you with us. Could you take a moment, look us up on Instagram or Facebook. You can find us there at Armchair Authentic, or you can go on over to X. Find us there as well, at Armchair Auth Pod. That's Armchair Auth A-U-T-H-P-O-D. All right. That's armchair off a UTH P O D, all right.

Justin: 21:28

Now back to the conversation.

Justin: 21:31

Even the, you know what you're saying.

Justin: 21:33

On the, the identity front, I mean, I think back to Dallas Willard, a great theologian, and something that I heard someone say about him and I've just always been drawn to it. And I've just always been drawn to it and it's like a challenge I give myself of that's the innocence that you want to be operating. Where your identity is so in the Father yeah, your identity is so in Christ, knowing that he created you for his pleasure and he receives pleasure to actually see us and to be with us, and we receive our fulfillment even getting to just be with him. And at the other side you have things you perform in and you have tasks that you want to do a good work in, but that's not who you are. And so I think back to Dallas, where I was hearing somebody say that he spoke at their church one time, where I was hearing somebody say that he spoke at their church one time. And you got to understand Dallas Willard. He almost the. He would talk in a way that it was probably more like me.

Rhett: 22:36

It was very slow, I actually I actually listened to a podcast of maybe some old sermons or something he preached.

Justin: 22:46

Yeah.

Rhett: 22:47

And I went back to as far as like 1990 or 80s or 90s, and you're right, very slow. And he did it on purpose, though, yeah.

Justin: 22:56

It almost was it was. He wanted to deliver a message that was more of his calling. He wasn't wanting to like get the troops rally hype up fast.

Justin: 23:07

Right, and some people are equipped for that. Yeah, he was all about bringing a message, and what was powerful about it is you had to have ears to hear, because if you're looking at your watch, thinking, speed it up, dude, you're not in the right mindset to take the gold that he's actually giving you Because you're trying to microwave something that needs to be cooked in a crock pot, and he delivered it in that way, and if you didn't gain anything from it, it's not on him, it's on you. That's your condition of your spirit, and what this pastor said is he loved that.

Justin: 23:43

He said that they were walking out of the room and Dallas Willard was just singing a hymn, just like just singing a little bit as they're walking to the car, and the pastor loved how carefree he was, because what he wasn't asking is do you think that went well? How do you think they received that?

Rhett: 24:03

Yeah, I don't mean to cut you off, go ahead. No, no, no, go ahead.

Justin: 24:06

I'm just.

Rhett: 24:06

I'm just dialoguing with you, yeah, yeah.

Justin: 24:08

You're feeling what I'm feeling. It's that mindset of I understand the temptation, because the only reason we really will ask well, not the only that's a big word, but a big reason we ask that question- is we're insecure and I'm wanting you to tell me oh, it was great, because it will pick me up.

Rhett: 24:26

It'll make me feel like I accomplished, ease my conscious a little bit and my insecurity to know that, oh, it connected, people loved it. You're awesome, thank you. Oh, I think I feel so much better about this stuff now, rather than being confident and content in that you've heard from God and you preached exactly and you were faithful to the message God gave you. And if they didn't have the ears to hear, that's on them, or it's in God's timing for them.

Justin: 24:48

For some it might not be the timing for them to have heard that, but you don't have to apologize and you don't always have to now critique your speaking style because it didn't keep everybody's attention, because, once again, that's a good thing for certain circles.

Justin: 25:06

But let's not confuse those two things, because our heart is to actually know what we're called to know, know what our actions are and to be able to. It'd be like me trying to jump in now and be like and then here's what I'd really like us to start doing. You know, if I felt that pressure, we'd probably have gotten to episode 12 and I would have probably come to you, rhett, and I would have said, bro, I just can't do this anymore. Like it's a little and I might not be open to tell you, but I might inside be feeling this pressure of man, I've got to really bring it.

Justin: 25:42

But episode 71 that you're hearing now. For us, the reason this works is we've been able to operate in our skin, as we're still learning about ourself and still walking from glory to glory. So all that from when you were talking about just the whole identity of it. I understand the balance that we face all the time and it's a daily work and we're going to continue to work on this to help people separate your performance from who you really really are, not the same.

Rhett: 26:16

And to clarify, when I say my identity, I'm not even saying that it was prideful in in in that like cause, whether you were a part of our youth ministry and you, you grew up with us and you've known us and, like everything we ever did and that I ever did from the platform was always full of prayer, with humility and walking and trying to be presence filled and knowing that when we get up and we're leading worship or we're singing or even performing, we're doing it in a way that's God honoring, that people experience the love of God and the presence of God and that life changing moment like always love of God and the presence of God and that life changing moment like always.

Rhett: 27:00

But what I'm saying through identity is that, personally, finding value, like feeling like my value was so tied to that gift, feeling that the only way that I'm going to be successful, that God's going to use me or that God can use me, it began to get so tunnel visioned into just this one area of my life. And I'm not saying that I mean well, that is kind of a bad thing, because there's a plethora.

Justin: 27:33

Ding, ding ding. I was thinking about you remember Pee Wee Herman's Playhouse?

Rhett: 27:35

Yeah, the word of the ding I was thinking about you remember Pee Wee Herman's Playhouse? Yeah, the word of the day.

Justin: 27:39

Yeah, you know.

Rhett: 27:41

And it was just every creature. Everybody go nuts whatever that word. A little robot Deet, deet, deet, deet. Oh yeah, you know right. And Morpheus from the Matrix. You remember that Morpheus? Wasn't Morpheus from the Matrix. He was like the mailman.

Justin: 28:01

I'm Cowboy Bob.

Rhett: 28:04

Cowboy Bob today. Morpheus tomorrow.

Justin: 28:08

I was in the Matrix.

Rhett: 28:09

They rescued me. That is funny. I never tied those two together, it's the same guy Cowboy. Bob is Morpheus. He was in Avengers too, yeah.

Justin: 28:19

He was an Ant-Man.

Rhett: 28:21

Yeah.

Justin: 28:22

Yeah, who was he? Morpheus, the guy that played. Oh, he was an Ant-Man. Okay, I just make sure you weren't thinking Samuel L Jackson.

Rhett: 28:31

No, no, no, no, no, I'm not thinking the Ant-Man film the girl that was like got nuclear bombed or something and she became like invisible power or whatever it might be, yeah.

Justin: 28:39

She was like the doctor that was trying, yeah, and he was in it, yeah, anyway, he's everywhere when I say plethora.

Rhett: 28:45

That's my way of.

Justin: 28:46

That's our secret word of the day. That's the secret word of the day.

Rhett: 28:49

We need to add like an effect or something every time you should, but there is a variety of giftings. So to really tunnel, like really to man, what's the word I'm looking for? I don't know why I keep saying tunnel.

Justin: 29:05

To hone in.

Rhett: 29:05

Thank you Like to just hone in on one is so limiting God and what he wants to do through your life. You know, it's like God, man. There's so many, so many different aspects and beautiful things that were created to do. And so for us, I don't know, man, but as a 16 year old, 17 year old, I'm trying to find our way in this world. You know, looking for a reason, I'm going through the night to find my place in this world. Right, so good, yeah, well, well, well, welcome everybody to the frustrations I give my wife on a daily basis of trying to have a conversation and then go all over the place. Um, but no, like so, but the identity, like.

Rhett: 29:45

For me it wasn't like this prideful, like, oh, look at me, it was more like I don't know, I just like I was limiting that's the word yeah myself to just this one aspect of what God was doing, as if thinking this is the one and only thing I'm going to do the rest of my life. And if I'm not doing this, then who am I? Yeah, I don't know if that resonates with anybody. Um, with whatever season you're in, yeah, but for me it was, it was music, it was, it was music, it was singing, it was platform. If I'm not doing that, then who am I? And of course, that was what 30, 31 years ago 32, yeah, 32 years ago, this summer.

Rhett: 30:28

So I'm not living there anymore, but I am saying that it is important. I wish somebody would have just sat me down and loved me enough to say hey, I want to coach you on some things. And I'm not even sure that the people in our lives at that point had the knowledge or the understanding to be able to really do that.

Justin: 30:46

You know, and I don't even know if my my there could have been a pride in me that I don't even know if I would have had the ears to hear in certain moments either.

Rhett: 30:55

I don't know.

Justin: 30:57

I think I could, but I don't know. But I do know that 15 and 16, you think that you grow out of things and that is a word I would have loved to have heard and you know, I just always I think that's the prayer. Like Lord, give me ears to hear. Like I want to have a sensitivity and I pray that wherever I'm in a moment with somebody that they would have ears to hear, if, if that could be, whatever blinders are keeping someone from seeing or hearing something, that's a great break break.

Justin: 31:28

help, lord, just let's. We want to see that, a breakthrough in that, so that they can have ears to hear, because 15 and 16, but this is just part of our journey, like it's. It goes on. We, I have conversations all the time with people and I go through things myself, so this is kind of a never ending journey of the onion being peeled.

Rhett: 31:49

Yeah.

Justin: 31:50

You get to another layer and it it reawakens things that happened you. That's why we, a lot of times, many people, can take things back to your childhood, to your teens, because such formidable things were happening in those moments. That it's not that you haven't gotten over it. Sometimes it is, but sometimes a new eye, your eye, opens up Revelation.

Rhett: 32:15

It's revelation.

Justin: 32:16

It's the onion being peeled, yeah, and you see something else and you begin to do the work. Yeah, and it requires you to go back into whatever season that that hurt, or that wound or whatever it is, that trauma, whatever it is that got placed on you. So you begin doing a work. So this is a good work that's going on, but it is awareness and it does require which. You were saying it would be great to have had someone in our life, and I agree with that I'm not trying to be a victim here and saying like I can't believe somebody didn't save me for myself.

Justin: 32:48

Hey, we were sure.

Rhett: 32:49

No villains, no villains but I but with the wisdom and understanding that I have now that I'm really trying to be present and helping other people.

Justin: 32:57

I think that's the thing. We're seeing something because of what we've been through, right, and God will usually take your pain and turn it into this fresh purpose, right. And so we have certain eyes where we see things, and there might be another leader who they don't see it, and you can get frustrated at them Like God. I wish they would just see that people are going through this, but they're in a different wiring and it might not be that it's them who needs to see it. It might be that God's like I'm putting this calling on you in this assignment. If you will, you're the eyes that see this. Now go make a difference in the world of the people who are coming around you. Yeah, which is why there's a gift set to sit at a table for an hour or two or three or 30 minutes.

Rhett: 33:46

Yeah.

Justin: 33:47

And actually have a patience to listen to somebody. I don't think everybody can, but I do think we should strive to be the best version of what God has created us to become, but at the same time giving ourself grace, knowing this is a life work that we're going through.

Rhett: 34:06

I think one of the greatest gifts we can give ourselves is the gift of self-awareness and that sounds great coming out of our mouth. Oh, I want to be self-aware. But the process of becoming self-aware means you've got to have somebody help you with your blind spots, to see things that you don't see, and that's not a fun process. In fact, I was at a conference the other day and I'm sitting like on the third or fourth row off to the side and one of the speakers came off the platform and they were walking the aisle and the cameraman was trying to follow them and and I'm like, okay, where, that guy's standing somewhere behind me. So my head is somewhere in the shot. Where am I?

Rhett: 34:44

Like where am?

Justin: 34:46

I.

Rhett: 34:46

And I'm like, look at all the old gray hair guys. I'm like, is that guy like, what is like? And I'm like that's my head. I'm seeing a blind spot. The point of the story is that there's a blind spot that I don't see the back of my head, right here. You can see me I'm patting the back left-hand side of my head and there's this gray patch and on camera it looked like a bald spot and I'm like, am I going bald? And I'm literally touching my head here, looking at, looking at the screen, going, oh my God, that's my head Now.

Rhett: 35:21

Granted, there's other, there's a hundred, you know there's 1100 people in the room. But I'm like, you know, nobody's noticing what I'm doing, but I'm not. I don't even know what the guy's saying, but I'm looking at a blind spot on my head and I'm going that I am not bald, there's a lot of hair here. But the camera so this is gray patch right here. And all that to say that was not a fun moment and I am 47 years old and I'm like what is happening right now.

Rhett: 35:45

I'm the old dude on the screen, and so the idea of blind spots, you know, and self-awareness, like self-awareness is a gift, but the process to get there is like, like self-awareness is a gift, but the process to get there is like oh man that's, you know, it really reveals a lot of insecurity that we have, whether we want to admit it or not, and it and I think the root I was sitting here thinking of, the root of this, justin, is that you know, the root of just being content is security in knowing who you are and whose you are.

Rhett: 36:20

Yeah, you know, and and I would say that oftentimes most of my life I knew who God is and what he's done for me. And there was this head knowledge and I'm having a transformation, but the revelation side of really understanding and being okay with it. God is enough for me, yeah, and that, whether or not I'm standing on a platform or singing, whether or not I'm preaching another message, whether or not I'm doing whatever it might be, that in my mind I've built up. That is what I bring value and what my identity is and what my purpose is. Like. No man like. My purpose and my identity is rooted in Christ and what God has created me to be a beloved son, and that's enough. Yeah, and if, if, every environment I walk into is just to produce fruit that comes from the root of being loved by God and experiencing his love, in in knowing what even God loves about me and even likes about me that gray hair patch that he designed at 47 years old.

Rhett: 37:18

Like that's a cool thing.

Justin: 37:19

That's right Like that's cool.

Rhett: 37:20

Like God loves me enough to do that for me, because ain't nobody else got that going on, right? You know, yeah, the way I do. Come on, man, I will rock it, I will wear it.

Justin: 37:28

Yeah, you're accepting.

Rhett: 37:31

Like so, wherever I find myself now, like if I can put a smile on somebody's face, man, that's man. How beautiful is that? So it doesn't have like I'm not living for these Epic moments to use my gift quote, air quotes, you know, because that's my purpose, Right, Air quotes. No man, my purpose is just to be. I'm being loved by God and out of me being that being enough, yeah, Like love, joy, peace, patience, goodness, kindness, gentleness, faithfulness, the self-control, the fruit of the spirit, the kingdom, rule of God is present in every like. I'm just being that aware to bring that into every environment. Yeah, that I walk into. Yeah, it was. It was interesting. I know I'm doing a lot of talking, but to tie this into a moment of just practical, I try to go. I love the Starbucks near my house, not because it's great coffee, but because I love the people that are working there. Oh, yeah.

Justin: 38:28

And it's a good one.

Rhett: 38:29

I've gotten to know each of them by name because they wear the name tag and I try to call them by name and so they recognize me and they had the camera. Whether you know it or not, there's a camera. When you pull in they're like, hey, what's up?

Justin: 38:40

Yeah, so just be aware of people when you're ordering your coffee.

Rhett: 38:51

Oh yeah, they see right up on that face. Yeah, if you're having a great day, she. She looked a little tired and I was like how can I, how can I bring the presence of God in this situation for her? Now, I'm not preaching to her. They don't know what I, you know?

Justin: 39:04

I mean right.

Rhett: 39:05

But I said, ivy, you're just here. I said I just appreciate your kindness, you're always so kind. That was my way of just just being nice and saying thank you for being kind. It put a smile on yeah, as if it was like a breath of fresh air to her, and so what I was doing in that moment is I was reminding her of something that God sees in her yeah, and God sees kindness in her, and I was calling that out. I put a smile on her face and then she was so kind enough to go. You know what? You too, you're always so kind. You're always coming through here with a smile on your face and encouraging us, and I was like, wow, okay, that's bringing that right there.

Rhett: 39:42

That's not on a platform, that's not singing, that's not air quotes the gift or my purpose, but it's not air quotes the gift or my purpose, but like that is, that's all our purpose, man. That's what it is. But that's rooted yeah, it's rooted in my identity of being loved by God, and as I'm being loved by God now, it's naturally trying my best to love others the way that I'm experiencing love.

Justin: 40:02

Yeah, you're, you're, you're building a connection and I think about this is really fresh because and I won't say the name of the friend, but you were pulling up to my house today. We were about to get the equipment ready and there's this lady who's lived in our neighborhood.

Justin: 40:18

I mean, she's been here, probably one of the first houses, but I've been in this house, like I said, just over four years and I do like a lot of running a walk, I walk my dog, all this stuff, and I have my routine and I do like a lot of running, I'll walk, I'll walk my dog, all this stuff, and I have my routine and I regularly pass this lady and she usually, like me, we'll have our air pod or air buds on, whatever, and we're doing our thing, we. But it's not like we don't even like I'm. I'm more of a people, person I'll look up and acknowledge, like she never acknowledges me and almost looks like she's so serious and you can misinterpret it like angry or whatever, probably not accurate. But you, you can misjudge people, but what happens on this is today. I was with rhett and I don't know if I was just a little more emboldened because I was with my buddy.

Rhett: 41:07

Yeah, I said hey, I'm gonna.

Justin: 41:07

The moment was kind of there, I'm getting out of the car and she's literally walking right past us.

Rhett: 41:10

Well, but the thing is I've, because I was with my buddy, yeah, and I said, hey, I'm going to. Well, the moment was kind of there, I'm getting out of the car and she's literally walking right past us.

Justin: 41:15

Well, but the thing is, I've walked by her hundreds of times and not said a word, because or I've said hey, but she's just not. She's looking down, yeah, and so I have all kinds of thoughts. It's like man. Has there been a bad experience in the past? I don't know, I'm analyzing like I do, but today I just thought we're going to go ahead and put a stop to this.

Rhett: 41:33

Hey, friends, just want to take a moment and say if you are enjoying today's conversation. Could you do us a huge favor. Would you take a moment and copy the link from your favorite podcast platform and share it with a friend? Email it to a friend. How about airdropping it over to your buddy or your sister right now?

Justin: 41:50

Man, that would mean so much to us. Thank you All right guys. Back to the conversation. And so, as she's walking, I saw her and I waved at her and said something.

Rhett: 42:03

Of course she had to turn her earbuds off, like her AirPods which clearly took her a good 30 seconds to disengage from her walk, turn everything off. She looked at you like, which explains it explains what I felt all these years.

Justin: 42:14

And I just looked at her and I said you know, I have a friend named so-and-so is that your son? Cause I knew that his mom lived in my neighborhood. She was like, yes, it is when we made that connection. So we're like, we're like, we're we, we do ministry together.

Justin: 42:30

Yeah, yeah, I mean her face just lit up. Yeah, she did, and all it was with was we took a simple connection and then she was like man. But I've been meaning to tell you I love what y'all have done with your house and the neighborhood and we began connecting outside of me, knowing her son, yeah, and we were talking about the neighborhood and it meaning you moved on, went inside. But that's an important aspect because just like you go into these people at Starbucks, when you take a moment with somebody just to find some kind of common ground of a connection, like it really is amazing the opportunity that you both have in that moment.

Rhett: 43:09

It's really good that you, you know, we never really know where our conversations are going. But I love that we've landed on this today because just yesterday Max and I so Max is home for the summer, he's walking with me in the mornings Didn't do it today Cause I'm here, but yesterday we're walking and there was this individual and I remember, because I've met him before, like this is Kendrick. And so it was Max and I walking out. We're like what's up, kendrick, good to see you, you know giving him a shout out, whatever Um and uh, and so we just start talking and then all of a sudden, like I'm trying to teach, like I'm really trying to be very aware of trying to get my son connected and pick up on what you're just did with your neighbor, you know, to get to know people and see how it benefits.

Rhett: 43:51

And I started we were talking and I said, dude, like Max loves the rap that you put on your car. Like every couple of months you got like a new rap on your car, so it was like a new paint job all the time. And then, well, I'm talking about that guy's car, but I'm also getting Max involved in the conversation the guy lit up and he walked over the car. Come on, man, come over here, let's touch it.

Rhett: 44:11

You can feel it and see what it is and he said I got a buddy of mine that does this and actually he does it for free because I'm helping him and and he's talking about bartering and all this stuff and my son's learning and we're connecting around a common interest, yeah, but he lit up like a christmas tree and we were encouraging him and it ended up being one of those things, too, where he was learning about max and the school and where he's wanting to go and this engineering and racing and the next thing you know, they're talking about that. So it's it's interesting to me that you just mentioned that with your neighbor, cause we really literally did that yesterday and max got to engage in that and learn the value. In fact, when we walked away, I said what did you learn from that? Oh well, he, like I said, what did you learn from that?

Rhett: 44:52

Oh well, he, like I said, yeah, no, let's dive deeper, Like, did you notice the connection? And I want you to pick up on what I'm throwing down of how to connect with people, ask questions, notice, bring them in and then, when they start talking about it, then just start diving into what they love man, because then that's, there's that kindness, there's the love, there's the joy there's that relational connect, that then next time you see them there's another door that's just open a little bit further along the way for you to get to just share the love of God with people, but to be able to do that it costs you.

Justin: 45:25

You have to get outside your own schedule, your own desires.

Rhett: 45:29

We were trying to finish a three-mile walk, and the last thing I wanted to do was stop with a mile left to have this conversation. It ends up working that way, no matter where you're at, and I think about this.

Justin: 45:38

This quote by Dietrich Bonhoeffer and it says that salvation is free, but discipleship will cost you your life. And that's a very deep statement because, my goodness, his context of living you know, being a pastor in Germany. He saw all the stuff with the Jews who were actually being taken and were being, I mean, literally exterminated and or in these concentration camps and being starved to death, all these terrible things. So he literally knows what it is. He died for his faith. But if you also just look at life, true discipleship, like salvation, is a free gift of Jesus. Thank you, jesus. It's free.

Justin: 46:20

But when we say yes to Jesus, we're embarking on a journey and the discipleship side that's what goes on and it will cost you your life. And that's not to feel desperate and scared. That's really an invitation into a life of adventure, because you don't go meet the guy that you met on the road when you have that mindset. I got to get to my next thing. I got to get to this. I've got to live my life Like you have to kind of die or not kind of. You have to die to yourself.

Justin: 46:52

And so in this process of discipleship and all these areas living in others, focused life, it actually requires you to stop living a self-focused life in the terms of trying to go achieve your best life Now on the other side of that is the best way to take care of others is you've got to make sure you're taking care of yourself, but it's in the right way, of taking care of what we read in the Scriptures, taking care of the temple of the Holy Spirit. But our goal in discipleship is, the more you die to your own desires and die to the, the, the temptations, whatever, whatever is alluring with us right now, every day that you wake up, all the alluring things that are constantly being just dangled in front of you. It's going through the process of saying no to that so that you can say yes to others.

Rhett: 47:53

The idea of death and dying to self. Like, as you mentioned that, I'm over here, my mind is just tripping in a good way, because you're either going to die now or you're going to die later. Death is inevitable or you're going to die later. Death is inevitable, and either we're going to lay down our life and die so that we can live, or we're going to hold on to what we think is life and then die. And so what does it profit a man if you gain the whole world but yet you forfeit your soul? And when your eyes are open to see that I might botch this, I'm going to try to say this the right way we're not human beings having a spiritual experience, we're spiritual beings having a human experience.

Justin: 48:42

That's right. We are not a body who has a soul. We're a soul that has a body.

Rhett: 48:48

So when your eyes are open to that perspective, you begin to see, man, I would much rather offer my life to gain life rather than to try to hold on to my life and lose my life. Yeah, because, I mean again, death is on both ends of this thing. Yeah, now, when we hold on to our life, we think death is like oh, whatever, you know, but like that's way away, never going to happen, whatever, but like it's going to happen. So I'm like man. I would much rather die to myself so that I could live, rather than because a lot of people if you think about the perspective, a lot of people, I don't, I don't, I don't want to die to myself because I really love myself. You know like, yeah, but they're like yeah, but what's the end goal here? What's the end product? Yeah, it's it's death.

Rhett: 49:35

And and god's saying you don't have to die, man, there's life like, it's like, ah, so much life, and I wish you could just see that it's so much more beyond this earth. There's more to life than this life. Yes, yes, Right, and um, and and it's like man, I would much rather respond to the invitation to experience death so that I could experience life in following Christ. So denying myself, dying to myself, is a much easier process and road when I, when I have the heaven's perspective in what's really going on and really what's happening.

Rhett: 50:12

To experience heaven on earth before I even get to heaven yeah. To experience the holiness of God, the righteousness of God, in my life, this side of heaven yeah, before I even get to heaven. I mean, come on, man, that's living. Yeah, that's the ultimate. Oh, yeah, and I know I'm kind of opening a deeper box of thought, but to go along with what you were saying, man, like when I hear we got to die to ourself, that's a good thing, I'm like, yeah, man, so that I can live and experience life and joy and peace and ultimately, eternal life.

Justin: 50:48

Yeah, it's why we end up thinking that, um, we're going, you're going to have a wake up call one day.

Justin: 50:55

Yeah, it's going to happen, yeah, and and we all have our pig pens that we get led to and they can actually be the greatest moment yeah, but it doesn't mean that what you perceive is truth coming out of the moments is truth. So, for example, you're going to have a revelation and you're going to have a chance to see the grace of the moment that's being presented to you, but you're also going to it's just human nature. You're going to see the regret of wasted time and so there's a work to be done there. There's a work to take that gift of grace and say, okay, this is a surrender moment, that from this moment forward, you begin to do that work and you're peeling another level, another layer of the onion, and part of the work is now having to get over these emotions and feelings that are taken over. Telling you if I would have only done this sooner or if I would have known this a long time ago, like these are real questions to ask. It's going back to I would have loved someone when I was 16, 17, 18, to tell me this. These are real thoughts and I've got to now deal with these thoughts. So what do I do with dealing with these thoughts? And what we do is we pause and we say God, what are you doing in all this? Where are you in this? And then we began to do the work without condemnation, knowing that, whatever I might regret in the past, I've got to continue to let that die off. That's just that flesh that's hanging on. But what happened to me? There's other people going through it that might not have to go through this.

Justin: 52:31

If there was someone who will go, and how do you get to the point in that moment and say, lord, send me. Like. My identity is in you. Yeah, it's that you take pleasure in me. And I have to give myself permission to believe that the God of the heavens and the universe takes pleasure in this very finite being over here.

Justin: 52:54

But you do, and my feelings aren't going to tell me that you do. But you do because you've already made it clear. So you're pleased with me and I'm also allowing this flesh to die off so that I can also take pleasure in my King. And I can say it with words. But I don't always take pleasure in my King because my King's telling me to get rid of things that this little King over here wants to hold on to, but to take pleasure and to have that discovery and begin to say I'm not looking back with any regrets, but any regrets I may have, holy Spirit, turn those into indicators on how I can shift this to now. I'm pausing for myself. I'm making sure I'm putting the mask on me first. The plane's going down. Let's say yeah.

Justin: 53:44

So that I can bring an awareness. I have an awareness now to help others in what they're going through. Bring an awareness. I have an awareness now to help others in what they're going through. And you're going to notice that the pain points that you've been through are going to be purposes that God's going to begin to open up. And that's the beauty of our walk it doesn't ever have to end.

Justin: 54:03

And if you're living with that regret, I promise I understand, and I understand the daily temptation to go back to that, but still we're faced with a daily challenge to choose to die and that's dying to that past regret, or that past, whatever it is, or that past position where you used to be the King and now you're not.

Justin: 54:24

But now moving on and saying God, where are you in this and what, ultimately? The pleasure that created me, that you had pleasure in me, and the pleasure that I began to take on, as I just am, at the service of my King. What can I do today to continue to fulfill? Not the pleasure? I'm already in it with you, lord. My identity is securing you. But what is the assignment now that you would have me go and do? And that's going to happen in the Starbucks line. It's going to happen to the lady walking down the street and it's also going to happen in the way that God sets things in your heart and says begin to build for something that I'm actually planning for you. And it's going to happen as you continue to die every day.

Rhett: 55:12

Yeah, and the only way you will ever we never arrive but the only way you'll ever get to a place in your life where you can begin to see that, if you'll allow God, he can turn your pain into purpose.

Rhett: 55:25

But the only way you'll ever get there, to be able to process these things, to move forward, to even want to die to yourself so that you can live, is when you begin to have a revelation of God's attributes his character, his nature, his goodness, his kindness, his compassion, his unfailing love, his never-ending mercies, his sovereignty, his holiness, the purity that comes from that. The only way you and I will ever be able to want to see our lives transformed, to live this and to experience that type of like, is to look into the mirror, which is God's word, to remind ourselves what God says about us and how he thinks about us. Because if we're not reading his word, if we're not devouring his word, if we're not looking at his word to gain wisdom and understanding heaven's understanding, the knowledge that God has and that is available to us through Christ Jesus, who was the word of God and is the word of God and the very breath of God, and in in like we wouldn't, there's no way that we would ever, number one, know our identity, number two, ever be able to make decisions, to position ourselves, to get to the place where we could see how God can turn that pain into purpose and not live with regret. So the root of all of this comes in that identity of what does God say about me, what does God think about me, what does God like about me? What does God love about me? Because this world will not. The world will lie to you. The world will tell you you're no good. The world will tell you who are you. The world will tell you it's impossible. The world will lie to you. The world will tell you you're no good. The world will tell you who are you. The world will tell you it's impossible. The world will tell you God doesn't love you. Not only does God not love you, your parents don't love you, they don't love you, they like everybody's against you. And so the only way we'll ever get to that place is to really come to a revelation and go Lord, I have to read your word. I want to read your word and I want to gain an understanding, your perspective on my life, your identity, because it all flows from that. And so I would say, wherever you are today and I'm speaking to myself, man I think a beautiful book Proverbs, very simple.

Rhett: 57:45

I love Proverbs, read it every day with my son. It is a beautiful reminder to us of God's wisdom, god's character, god's nature and the fruit that comes from actually walking in the fear of the Lord, walking in honoring of God, walking in awe of God, and it's his voice to us in practical wisdom of how we can live our lives and just the attributes of who he is. It's a beautiful. So there's 31. Whatever date it is, just look it up, read it and just devour it and approach it in a sense of God.

Rhett: 58:16

Will you just teach me about you today?

Rhett: 58:18

I just want to learn more about you and who you are and just give me the revelation to not see these as words on a page, but for what.

Rhett: 58:25

It is the very breath of God that you're wanting to breathe into me today, to learn about how much you love me, care for me. You know the Psalms are the same way, the New Testament the same way, man. But I'm just saying, when you begin to open up God's word and to see it for what it is, have that revelation, man. It changes everything and it allows you to be able to take the steps of what you were saying, justin, about being able to go. Man, I want to die to this. I don't have to live with this regret because I know what God says about me. He doesn't remember any of this because of the beautiful grace of forgiveness that came through Christ Jesus in the blood. He forgets it as far as the east is from the west. So when we approach God with our regrets or our pain, he's like I don't, you know, I forgot about that, but you wouldn't have known that he forgot about it, unless you've read that.

Rhett: 59:11

Oh my gosh, this is who he is. This is who he says he is you know, and this is, this is the truth. Yeah, I hope that helps somebody.

Justin: 59:16

It's so good. It helps me, it encourages me. It's just a part of our ongoing conversation.

Rhett: 59:21

Yeah.

Justin: 59:36

And many, many more hopefully to come. We have more time because maybe we'll just keep diving into this a little bit more. I think we need to. Yeah, we appreciate you guys being so faithful and all the newcomers Hope you're enjoying this journey with us. Thanks for listening to.

Rhett: 59:43

Armchair Authentic. Peace, love you guys. Hey friends, thank you so much for joining us on today's conversation. We cannot wait until our next episode that drops next Monday. So until then, we hope you have a great day, stay safe and we will see you soon, right here with your friends Red and Justin at On Chair Authentic.