Rhett: 0:00

Imagine a world where every conversation feels like a genuine connection with authentic people. A place where you truly feel like you belong and where everyone's got a chair at the table. Friends, welcome to Armchair Authentic. So this weekend was a monumental weekend for my son and I. Had the opportunity, Justin. Many of you know my son wants to be a professional race car driver. He's pursuing that dream. He's working three jobs, has been for a year to build the finances in the budget, to buy his own chassis. And if anybody knows me, I'm not like mechanically inclined, but I've actually learned how to do more of this. And I'm like, wow, I actually know how to do some of this. This is crazy. I'm like learning. YouTube is my new best friend. You can learn a lot. That that in Chat GPT. Like I've given ChatGPT all the prompts. Like, I need you to speak from the professional race engineer perspective and all this stuff. And and give it, I'll like even tell me, like, I even told chat, like, okay, are these instructions really like refine this, make it? Am I asking the right questions? Are you am I setting you up to make me successful for what I need to know? No, you really need to set these instructions up this way if this is what you want to accomplish. Great. Just tell me how I need to do it. Do it. So I've copied all that, put that in there. So anything I'm now in, I've got like its own project folder for all things max racing. Anyway, so as I'm processing all this, I'm learning a lot about engines and pricing and all the stuff, how to take care of it, maintain it. And so I'm trying to together, Max and I are learning a lot. All that to say, we went to Georgia this past weekend to pick up an engine that we get a great deal on. We brought it back to the house. I put some of this on a story on Facebook or Instagram if you anybody. And so it's neat. So we're doing a lot of father-son stuff, you know. Um, and I'm really enjoying the the bonding and the the time of travel together and the conversations, the laughter. We got into playing a game. We're like, hey, uh, guess this, guess this movie based off this instrumental soundtrack. So, like all the theme music to like Back to the Future, Jurassic Park, Star Wars, Marvel. Yeah, so you ready for this? He played that for me. I was like, Oh, I know this movie. I know it. He's like, Come on, dad, it's in the 80s. Yeah, and I was like, I don't, I was like, I know it, it's on the tip of my tongue. Yeah, and uh to be able to recall that, I was like, I can't recall the stinking movie. I was naming all these movies, but he's like, Come on, dad, you know this one. Which one was it? That was Back to the Future. Yeah, but uh, but I I didn't know it when he was playing the song. Yeah, but then you would know this song. But then I was like, he was like, Well, this is this artist and this artist, and all this same artist did the F1 music, did the Top Gun music, did that. I was like, oh my gosh. There are some people who are making bank off of instrumental and it's in its genius level. They ought to be paid for it because it's like it's ridiculous. Oh, yeah, it's it's like defining of your of your life growing up.

Justin: 3:14

Unbelievable. It becomes a soundtrack of yeah, your life.

Rhett: 3:17

Picked up Top Gun pretty easy. Picked up like there was a lot of uh I got a lot of them right, but he was surprised at how many I didn't get right.

Justin: 3:24

Yeah.

Rhett: 3:24

You know, and and now with technology with like uh Apple Play and everything on the screen, you can actually see. Just don't look at the screen, Dad. You just give it away. I was like, okay, I'm trying not to, but I need to look at the GPS at the same time.

Justin: 3:36

I was picking Kai up, my 14-year-old from development last night, and on our way home, oh yeah, we um Max was there. Yeah, we got to talk to him. He and Kai were hanging. Um when when I'm driving home, I just randomly turned on. It was like songs that you know were the defining songs of classic movies, something like that. Classic movie theme songs. And it started with um um yeah, it wasn't that one. Which one is that? Maybe that's Jaws. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Classic. Two notes. No, it started with uh Alanis Morset's Uninvited.

Rhett: 4:14

Really?

Justin: 4:15

Yeah. Which that was on that was the Angel. Was that what is that? That was the that was the credit scene of the Nicolas Cage movie. City of Angels, maybe I think so. Bum bum bum bum. Line dun dun dun dun dun dun dun dun. And has that minor?

Rhett: 4:42

Oh, that's cool.

Justin: 4:43

Fascination with me. You don't remember that? But this is not allowed. Keep singing, baby. You're uninvited. I don't remember anything. Oh my gosh, we're gonna listen to that song later. It's so good. My mind just went blank. But it had a lot of these songs, and then it had the ooga chuck up. Oh, yeah, yeah.

Rhett: 5:01

All I remember is the dancing baby or something back in when in the computer, everybody had that on their computer. That was like the meme of like the 90s.

Justin: 5:07

Yeah, Allie McBill. Oh, yeah. Yeah, yeah. That show had the dancing baby that would hop in there sometimes. Yeah, creepy. Yeah, creepy.

Rhett: 5:15

It's like a 3D rendering of a baby dancing to that.

Justin: 5:19

Well, it's and it's like what makes the theme song work? Because Guardians of the Galaxy is that ooga chocko, ooh go. Who would have thought, let's go with this song that's gonna be like more than a feeling? Yeah, it's so random, but yet it's iconic because that was the perfect song.

Rhett: 5:37

So I randomly I was like, I want to hear some of your music. And we were playing this on the on our trip, but we were also playing it a couple other times, and I was like, I was trying not to act surprised by listening to what he's listening to. Wasn't bad, but I was like, God, these songs are like 60s and 70s. And I'm like, some of these songs I've never even heard of. That they would have been songs that my dad would have listened to growing up. Yes. And I'm like, how now, but then I was like, How did you get into this genre of music? Like, it's not even today's kind of music. Yeah. It's like a guitar with bass. I mean, like, yeah, not digitally recorded, but all analog in a studio, like just raw, like with a lot of mess ups and mistakes that you're hearing and recording flaws. Yeah, yeah. And uh, and he was like, Well, this song was in my basebook, and this song was in my basebook, and this song, and because we had him take bass lessons, yeah. And in the basebook, he was learning all these lines that were coming from like the 60s and 70s music. Yeah, so then he would go back to find those songs so he could listen to it to play the bass. I was like, ah, and then he's like, But then Guardians of the Galaxy, I was like, Oh, okay, I'm starting to pick it up. Between the bass book that he learning lines and wanted to hear how the song actually went, yeah, and then he's playing, in addition to Guardians of the Galaxy. This brother's on a whole nother. I'm like, dude, like I I've never once played any of these songs. I haven't heard what is this?

Justin: 7:04

He's appreciated classic music.

Rhett: 7:07

Yeah, I was triggered by it. I didn't want to hear any of that stuff. So, but he like he likes he's like you and I know now in that he'll listen to anything, you know, in in in perspective, yeah, right? Yeah, but uh, and I'm like, dude, like he loves rock, he loves like R and B, hip hop, like all the stuff, and he loves instrumental music, classic, like yeah, he's a musician at the core, man. He really is. Like he he doesn't give himself enough credit for how much how much music is in his blood.

Justin: 7:34

So I'm not sure how that all that's gonna play out in his own life, but it's it's yeah, you're yeah, you're just allowing it to set in and marinate my marinate.

Rhett: 7:43

My um early days of legalistic Christianity that I bought into. Yeah, I'm having to fight the urge to go, I can't believe you're listening to some of this. I don't want to be that dad. Yeah, you're trying to balance some things.

Justin: 7:59

Like, what's the greater lesson you're teaching? Yeah, you're trying to teach a lesson in some of this stuff.

Rhett: 8:04

And I want dude, he's 17, he's almost about to be 18, and I'm and I'm trying to guide, and I'm like, hey man, some of this is good, but just you know, hey, listen to the message beyond the music because there there is a oh yeah, there's some theming there.

Justin: 8:18

And it you know and it it really does. It's pervasive. It it can control your the way you do life. Yeah, and you don't even a lot of these songs we grew up with. I love like when I play Apple Music, I like reading lyrics because I didn't grow up.

Rhett: 8:33

We didn't have lyrics, no, because we didn't buy the album and you could barely make out the words.

Justin: 8:37

They were so small, but when I read some of these words, um, what was I? I just did not know that I was listening to this with my dad in the car. Oh, yeah.

Rhett: 8:47

Prime example of that was a uh we did an 80s karaoke. This I was living in Dallas, it was one of our worship guys. We went over his house, there was a birthday party, and we were doing this 80s karaoke, yeah, you know, kind of thing at his house. And it was like, oh, let's sing along, have some fun. And then we're singing the songs, and we're like, I didn't know that said that. Right. We might need to stop right now. Because this is not, this is like, oh, uh wow, it says that. Yeah, I didn't know that. I knew the melody, like whatever it was, you know, but I had no idea. I'm not gonna even begin.

Justin: 9:21

You never knew. It was just like but just like wow, and the people just trying to get together.

Rhett: 9:26

But I'm a melody, I'm a melody getting together. I am a I'm a melody and rhythm guy. Yeah, and so if it's got like uh Phil Collins, you know, boom, boom, boom, boom, doom, doom, do, doom, poop with some strings and some scent and a little bit of doo-doo doo doo doo with something on it. Like I'm all like, oh, I'm in. Yeah, and then I hear the melody, and I'm like, oh, that's a sick melody and some sick, like yeah, yeah, whatever. Like, and I I I don't I still don't know the meaning of all that that that song. I don't I don't even want to know, but I'm like, that is just a that's it's in my mind. That's a classic. It takes me back to memories, and I'm not even tied to the to whatever he's saying. Right. I'm thinking, oh, I remember riding my bike around the apartment complex or whatever it might be with that, you know, in the cassette or something in my you know, yeah 80s headset of some sort.

Justin: 10:17

Well, I always remember hearing a story on that song in the air tonight. Which it had to be folklore, it had to be made-up stories. You didn't have Siri or Google or AI to correct the story. So there was a lot of hype a lot of hyperbole going on with stores, right? We're just talking as guys, and I'm hearing about how that the you know, it it talks about uh, of course, the lyrics aren't in front of us, we don't have to pull it up, but it's like I saw what you did that night. Uh-huh. And the story had gone, which I don't think this has ever been proven. Okay. But growing up, I thought this that he actually witnessed like one of his friends being killed by like an adult figure. And he was in the closet. Oh my god. Once again, let me say this has not been proven to be true, but when you hear this growing up, yeah, it's an epic story. And he saw the person who did it. It was like a family member, and he obviously is going through the trauma dealing with it, and he writes that song like 15, 20 years later. He finds out that authority who committed the murder is a huge Phil Collins fan. Has it where he wins these tickets and he arranged it where the police knew where his seat was marked, and at the moment of the song when the drums kicked in and the lights kicked on, the police made their way and arrested him. And if you hear the lyrics and you know that story, you think, wow, he's writing the song about I saw what you did that night. You it's all been a lie. Yeah. And I can feel it calming in the air tonight. And it was all about that. So growing up, I thought, what a mastermind to even think that. And of course, I'm scared to ask Siri because she's gonna say, That story is not true. You know, we used to make up some great stuff as kids. Yeah, but it what if that was true? But all yeah, crazy. And that would that is absolutely so when I hear that song, all I can think of is wow, what a premeditative plan to to get truth and justice enacted and enforced on this individual who thought he got away with it in at the Phil Collins concert.

Rhett: 12:33

Well, yeah, I all that I guess we got there because we were talking about how like melody and music and rhythm is really what I'm drawn to. And so the theme or the actual lyrics or the message behind the music, I I typically don't know what that is. But even though it can still influence you, even though you subconsciously you don't even know it's influencing you. But I'm like, so I have to be careful, you know, and that's what I'm trying to teach my son. Is like, hey, it's incredible, yeah, but be careful of the messaging that you allow yourself to hear within some of the incredible. So it's one thing to fall in love with a rhythm and the melody and all that, but like, what is the message that's being spoken at the same time?

Justin: 13:11

Well, it's powerful because you can hear a certain song and you almost have to it's it's the same as like when you're counseling or coaching somebody. You take them deep, and if you leave them there, you're almost they're worse than they were. Yeah, you gotta bring them back. I've had to create and I've had to help people do this because I know what I have a propensity to fall into. I have to create my own little playlist at times that brings me back out because I can listen to certain songs because I love the music and I love I'm not even thinking about the message. Yeah, but then you read the words and it's a bit, it's a bit rogue, it's a bit renegade. And when you listen to it, it kind of fires you up. And you almost can be ready to, it's like I'm ready to go this. It's not even a bad path, it's just a very renegade, yeah, off the beaten path, which speaks to so many parts of that in me, which can be both good and both bad. Yeah. And I will have to uh turn something else on whenever I've gone there. I don't know if that makes sense or not, but you can get so into a song that it it's powerful. Music, yeah, it can it can do powerful things both for good and both for the negative.

Rhett: 14:32

How many stalkers were born by listening to stings? I'll be watching you. Incredible melody, incredible lyric, and not lyric, but incredible music. Every breath you take, every move you make, like every step you take, I'll be watching you. Yeah. Oh, can't you see? Like, you belong to me. And nobody else. You don't even know who I am. Yeah. Every cold heart breaks with every move you make. Like, no matter where you go, I'm watching you. And then they're like, I wear my sunglasses at night. That would be like I wear my sunglasses at night, right? So I can, so I can. And I don't remember the that's where I'm like, I don't want to know what he said. Because I think it's cool to wear your sunglasses at night. I don't want to know what he said from it.

Justin: 15:22

I'm like, you know, like we'll never look up the lyrics.

Rhett: 15:26

Yeah, I don't want to look up the lyrics because I'm like, I just like, you know, I wouldn't mess it. But it's still, it's probably a starter song. But the but the thing, I'm sure it came from a place of like uh, you know, like I love you so much. Yeah, sure, you know, to his wife or whoever it might have been at the time, right? Like, I love you so much that wherever you go, my heart's always thinking about you. I'm always watching, like, I just want you to know you're running through my thoughts all the time, babe. Right, kind of moment. But uh put that in the hands of a creeper. How many stalkers were actually born and influenced? And that is their theme song of the thing.

Justin: 16:01

They're looking around upon them all that people make and buy creepy. I see that one right there. Sorry. So, anyways, well, it's the same way with us. We became so sanctified and we are so grateful for Jesus. We could turn that into a Christian song. Yeah, God loves us so much. Every step we take, He's watching us, he's here for us. It's a Christian song. You can turn it into a Christian song if you just put the word Jesus in it every every Jesus says, I'll be watching you. At least in the Bible Belt, too, growing up when people weren't really surrendered to Christ, but we're in the Bible Belt. So at our private Christian school that we've gone to, I can remember songs coming out on the top 40, just pop top 40. Yeah. And if it mentioned like God, I love you, yeah. We'd be like, Well, it said the word God. You remember that? It would just a Christian song. It said God, it's it's God is watching us. God is watching us from a distance. And then you got the Pharisees coming out saying, Well, yeah, no, he's really not watching us from a distance. He's near and clear. It's like, sorry. Sorry, Bet. Okay. Bet Midler.

Rhett: 17:15

That's the I was literally, I was like, who sang that song? Was it Barbara Streisand? No, but it was Bet Midler, actress and and vocalist.

Justin: 17:23

We had a we had a um, I see a good video of it the other day, but we saw some of this on socials, I feel like a year ago, where Whitney Houston's song, I Will Always Love You. Where it's that classic. Before she goes to that, it's like, you know, it goes to that pause, and then there's silence.

Rhett: 17:43

And I will always Yeah, but that beat's not so clear. Like they they do it, they do it offbeat on purpose. Yeah, it's not in rhythm.

Justin: 17:51

And so there's a guessing rhythm where teams have come together to try to like strike the drum at the exact beat. So we had a family night the other night, and we were trying to time it perfect with like uh giving each other five. You see, and we could not get it. We spent an hour and a half just replaying that. Because it's not in rhythm. So fun, by the way. By the way, we and and at the time of this recording, you're hearing it, it's already November, but we're recording this in October. So for our family night, we actually decided to put up our Christmas tree. We were like, it's time, it's time for Christmas tree. Kai wanted to put it up early, let's do it. And then we got into the Whitney Houston song, yeah, and it just turned to the funniest family night. Yeah. And then I asked Kai, we did one, I said, let's just see if we can do an old 70s uh freeze frame. I always thought those were so funny, the freeze frame where it just freezes when they're laughing. Yeah. It's like Mr. Miyagi on the track.

Rhett: 18:52

They were always in the movie on a like zoomed in on somebody's face.

Justin: 18:56

And you might even hear the laughter continuing and the music kicks in, but it's the freeze frame. And so we nailed the Whitney Houston song, like and it was so perfect. And I said, Well, you go turn that into his freeze frame. And he did so good. Uh, you know, I needed to show it at some point, but it was it, yeah. I mean, we just had the it's funny, like the simple things that that became like we're gonna do that. Next time we have the Bardens over for a family night, we're going to do the Whitney House. It's near impossible to get because it's that it's not in a rhythm.

Rhett: 19:27

Yeah. It's not. It's not like a fun just little things like that.

Justin: 19:32

Yeah. Oh, you talked about another one real quick. Yeah. You talked about Back to the Future earlier. I ran over this for a while. Maybe I'm just catching up. Okay, so I've been off social media for a while now.

Rhett: 19:43

Yeah.

Justin: 19:44

Just to get back, like when I say a while, like four to six weeks. You're doing a reset.

Rhett: 19:49

Kind of resetting. Yeah, but you got a lot going on right now, too. So you're you're eliminating distractions to keep you focused.

Justin: 19:56

Yes, yes. And that's a whole other story. I I jumped back into school, so I'm in the process of getting my master's right now. I'm trying to tackle a crazy schedule to get it done in a certain timing. We'll talk about that later. Uh, but yeah, there's just um a there's tons going on, but yeah, I still realize that there's some announcements that I'm missing by not being online. I mean, the first thing I saw when I got on is you talking about Max's car. Yeah. And it's like, man, I need to I need to at least know this, and I'm not knowing this if I'm not online. So I pulled it up and I saw a story, and it was talking about Back to the Future.

Rhett: 20:32

Okay. I get a lot, I get a lot of algorithm of back to the future on my feed.

Justin: 20:36

Well, did you know that the original Marty McFly was it was they they they filmed another guy. Yeah. It's the main character. Yeah, he's like a red-headed dude. Yeah, and they did five weeks of filming.

Rhett: 20:47

Yeah, they started the movie and they were like, This is not working with us.

Justin: 20:50

But he was more just and he probably was really cool. It was almost like if Tim Burton did a back to the future, or it's more existential, and the guy's very you know, cerebral in his thoughts. Like the picture showed that guy and it it looked very serious. And then the director had more of a vision for a comedian, like more comedic relief with Marty McFly. And so, yeah, so they re-filmed everybody and then put in Michael J. Fox.

Rhett: 21:17

Which at the time which at the time, Michael J. Fox had become very popular in the show Family Ties. Yes. The early 80s, mid-80s, which demanded a lot of his time. Oh man, did you watch the documentary? I don't mean to take away from your story. No, that was my story. You need to watch the documentary of Michael J. Fox. I mean, you don't have to, but if you were a child of the 80s and you know there was an influence there, um, very, very intriguing because I may get this wrong, but when he filmed, when he got signed to film Back to the Future, go back and do those five weeks and then move forward. His work schedule was he was doing family ties during the day. Then he would get like maybe an hour of sleep in a ride over to the set, and he would do it, the Warner Brothers set, and then he would work all the way to like 3 a.m.

Justin: 22:02

Yeah.

Rhett: 22:03

The Warner Brothers lot, I think it was Warner Brothers Lot or wherever they were filming that, did a lot of night scenes and other stuff that they were doing. Yeah. And then he would sleep a couple hours, then go back and do family ties. So, like he hearing his story, he was like, There's no way. I don't know how I did it. Yeah, you know, I mean, it was it was insane and it was in and it's unhealthy for sure. Yeah, and it led him down a path of probably making a lot of decisions he shouldn't have made. Yeah, but like it just his work schedule and his grit and the stuff behind the scenes. Like, I I was just taking, I was like, golly, like a lot. It's one thing to record one hit TV show, but then to leave that and then to go and spend another seven, eight hours in addition to the 10 hours you just put on that show, learning scripts and learning dialogue, and then taking that acting, and like, God man, that's a lot for a young guy.

Justin: 22:52

Well, yeah, I mean the green.

Rhett: 22:53

Yeah, I just thought it was I thought it was fascinating, really. It is, you know, because you don't we didn't hear those stories then, but now we get to hear those stories.

Justin: 23:00

Yeah, and I think one of the key things you just said, and this could be a perfect segue, yeah, uh, to one of the big rocks that I would probably talk about for a story.

Rhett: 23:09

Set that up because we have new people listening right now that may have not heard the last yeah.

Justin: 23:14

So we are on our countdown to 100 episodes where we will put the period or the ellipses. Yeah, and then it will really conclude two years of what's been Armchair Authentic coming at you every uh Monday. And so we really wanted to make sure, and we've known this for a while, but we've wanted to keep the same episode vibe that we've had, but we knew before we ended, we wanted to make sure we completed some stories that we didn't tell in full. And so if you haven't had a chance, listen to last week because Rhett, such a powerful story of what the hurdles, the difficulties that you had to overcome, a story of uh really tragedy with divorce, yeah, and how God has literally like Job, it's like he's giving you double of everything, he's completely um the enemy had to pay you back from everything that he stole. Yeah, and powerful story. Go back and listen to that. By the way, huge amounts of people actually listening to that already, because you could tell that really resonates. And we just wanted to hit some of these big rocks that our sons and our future daughter-in-laws and grandkids and dear friends who are listening to us right now can always go back and we live we leave something in this time capsule that we've really committed these past two years to create. And so we're just kind of going back and forth on these final nine episodes, uh, taking turns and telling some stories that maybe we needed to put a finish on it. That we've most of these I feel like we talked briefly about, right? But we just wanted to put some more time into each one, uh, kind of make it a little storyteller moment. And so, um, did I leave anything out on that? No, not at all. No, it's great. And so, but you said something a while ago. I thought, let's just go ahead and jump in on this one because it does take grit. We've grew up with a lot of grit. You're talking about Michael J. Fox having to hit all these different movie sets, show sets, all this stuff to get things done. Yeah. And you gotta have it. But there's also some unhealth that can happen. Yep. It can also happen in the sense where it feels like it's healthy because you're getting certain results, and maybe even the thumbs up of people that you think if they give you thumbs up, that must be a good thing too. Because you're going after something with all your heart. And just maybe there are um, just because you're getting that, there might still be a sense of that doesn't make it right. Like there's you're you're you've you've kind of gotten lost in this pursuit of whatever you're doing. And of course, there's indicators and ways that we can look at that, but you know, I think back to um growing up, we were very gritty. We went after it, we've always been creators. Yeah, you know, we have we've had fun stories. I can share, I get to say we instead of me on a lot of this because we've shared so much together. The creators of you know Wild Caverns USA, which was our little theme park and our mind that me and Rhett created growing up. Yep. Roller coasters. I mean, we invented so much, it was so fun to exercise that creative muscle. Yep. And it's really awesome too how you grow up in a certain way and you can see how these gifts begin to grow. And I remember when I was 15, it was right before I gave my heart to Jesus on that beach trip. My cousin Matt Kaplan, who we had on an earlier episode, the butterfly effect, uh conversation with Matt Kaplan, who's been on Broadway, rent, different uh shows like that. And he had showed me about four or five chords on the guitar, and I just stuck with it and I loved it. I knew it was something. I'm gonna do this. Yeah, like there's something with music we've always been interested in. Yeah. And and it really awoke me when I could make music with a guitar. Now you could have heard it then, and I'm telling you it wasn't good. But just to be able to strum a chord was amazing to me. Yeah. And so just the event that that happened, you know, for me it was June of 1993. Uh Matt shows me a few chords. I go to a beach trip July of 1993, surrender my life to Christ. None of that, I didn't see any of this coming. And this story isn't about that. That is a big rock story I'm gonna go back to on one of these episodes. But, you know, needless to say, I stuck with the guitar. Yeah, it became something that I knew was a call, you know, that I was I was called to ministry, full-time vocational ministry. I knew it was local church. I didn't know how to word it like that. But the guitar is just something that I continued to play. I began singing. I didn't really ever consider myself like a vocalist, but it's like I always sang. And we had people from Tom Council, who was the greatest choir director of our school that me and Rhett both went to.

Rhett: 28:20

We even wrote a song for him.

Justin: 28:21

We did. Hey, hey, Mr. Counsel.

Rhett: 28:24

Which he never, which he never heard, but we recorded.

Justin: 28:27

We needed we need to go visit him one day.

Rhett: 28:28

Hey, hey, Mr. Council. Long live, Mr. Counsel, Mr. Mr. Mr. Council. Yeah, we just tell me, Mr.

Justin: 28:42

Council, and we were and we would open the morning in our school.

Rhett: 28:49

Sorry, I didn't mean to mean to just mess up your setup.

Justin: 28:52

But Tom Counsel.

Rhett: 28:53

That was literally, we love this guy so much, we're writing songs about him.

Justin: 28:56

Him and Mr. Quaz, you know, and so but but Mr. Council called was one of the first to call the gold out of me. And he affirmed me vocally, and it meant a lot. And so here I am years later, playing the guitar, singing, doing Bible studies as opportunities. I didn't even know what I was doing. I would just play a song, David Berry. We had him on the podcast before. All these opportunities, we just grit and we grinded it out. We would go to the church every day, work hard, began uh a friendship with Micah, began singing together. Yeah, just did all this stuff and didn't really recognize that there was a lot of this early momentum and success that we were walking in. It really spoke to my drive and to a performance side of me that I really enjoyed accomplishing some of these things. Felt very meaningful, and it was very, very meaningful. Right. Pastor Rod, Micah's dad, was a father to us as Spiritual father, who also was another person to come in and speak just so much affirmation over this gift. And so the drive that we had in so many ways was a very godly thing because God gives you drive. It doesn't mean that you need to just get lazy in any of the story that I'm about to say. But with me, there became an unhealthy side of this. And so it would even make its way to uh we would do music, we would have bands that we'd travel and do these concerts. And it felt just very normal. Just you're just hustling and you're working hard, you're calling places, you're getting concerts. I would call different churches, and and I could pack a room out just because I had this hustle. Every break that I had, I would go make phone calls. Which nobody told you. You just paid for the case. Yeah. Yeah. It was just, it's it's like when we talk about I always drew brackets. Everything was a tournament. Like just it's just everything's a competition. There's a wiring in me that had to just there's a good side of this. I would call these youth pastors and say, hey, we're in concert at this church that this youth pastor scheduled us for. And so we would have great crowds come and we would lead them in worship and do concerts. And it was just, it seemed like that was just normal because that's what we were doing. But the fact is, it wasn't normal. We were grinding things out and working hard and seeing the fruit of our labor. Wonderful thing. I would say though, there's always the shadow side of everything. So you fast forward many years. I get married in 2000, step out of our church that we were in at Parkway, told that story before. I'm going to go back and tell more of that a little bit more in depth in a later episode because there was a lot of steps of faith to take in that story, but ultimately landed at where I am now at Church of the Islands. I mean, I've been there since 2001, which listening to this, I mean, we're coming up on a 25-year anniversary, early 2026. It's been quite the ride. It's been an amazing thing to be a part of. And just as any spiritual formation that happens, there's been the best of times and there's been the worst of times. And I mean all this right now. I'm speaking from my own spirit and the growth that you go through and the victories and the letdowns. But there was that drive that I had that I continued to go, go, go. And there was a point in this or a moment that this drive was so for Christ and so for the people like your friends, the people you're around, a lot of time to be available to people and stop and just sit down and say, hey man, what's going on? My true passion was Jesus. I love him so much. And I had such a passion for people. Those were kind of the constants. There wasn't a threat. There wasn't a mindset of building my kingdom and my name and my brand, all these words we can think of now. I would never have known to label that then. But I noticed I went through probably 2004, maybe 2005, 2006. It started in there where the performative side ended up shifting to the good part about it. And the shadow emerged because I'm among people who are great at what they do. I'm among a new grouping of people who've kind of moved here from other places as well. And I'm getting acclimated to even new culture in the sense of ministry, came from prominent ministries from Louisiana, Colorado, some other places like this, and people coming with them who are some of my best friends to this day. But I'm understanding there's a new kind of vibe that I'm not used to, which was both exhilarating but also intimidating.

Rhett: 34:17

Hey friends, if you're enjoying today's conversation, could you do us a huge favor? Would you share the link of this episode with a friend, with a coworker, with a buddy? Email it, airdrop it, text it, comment on Facebook, however, you would like to share it. Man, it would mean so much to us to help us get the word out to have more friends join us in on this journey. Thank you. All right. Now back to the conversation.

Justin: 34:41

As a musician, as just an individual in life, as a new married, you know, man with me and Summer stepping into this brand new church at that time of 70 people. We begin to uh just lock in and having the best time of our life. 2001, 2002, 2003. It's like, does life get any better? Like, this is awesome. At the same time, the band that I'm in, we're still traveling and booking concerts. We took out, I remember with my dad, we took out a $20,000, $22,000 loan. Yeah. And my dad put some collateral up. I still can't believe he did it. He just said he believed in me. And I had and so I had it in me like we're gonna pay this off. Yeah. So we're locked in. So the good grit we're going after. I would have been in Dallas at this point. Yeah, that's right. It's the story you listened last week timeline it. Yeah. Rhett's now going through some of this pain. Uh yeah that you explained, but you had just stepped out of the band to focus on new ministry endeavors, which obviously turned into what you talked about last week. Here I am in Birmingham, our years of separation. Yeah. And I'm still trying to build this band, but I'm also torn because I'm at a church that I love like crazy. And it's harder to see two happening at the same time. Yeah. And of course, that's a different story. But somewhere in there, if I can say this now that we're really at the point of what I've set up and make this a little more concise and probably even shorter, but in the hustle of getting bookings, in the hustle of trying to adapt to a new culture and surrounding that I wasn't used to, and honestly not getting the affirmation that I think we were so used to getting in our first seven years of Parkway, just different mindsets. It's not a bad thing, it's just different mindsets. You're sometimes on an island wondering, how am I doing? Am I am I am I good enough?

Rhett: 36:43

Yeah, especially when you're used to receiving affirmation as a form of saying you're doing a good job, you're heading the right direction. And that was what we were used to.

Justin: 36:51

Yeah, and it was always nice to get it. And of course, shadow side to everything. You can get so used to that you it you no longer need faith to move in a direction because you keep getting people just cheering you on, yeah, uh almost in an unhealthy way. And so, in the midst of all this stuff going on, the slowdowns, the availability just was no longer there, like for people. Everything that I did was in the name of mission and ministry and building what I thought is the Lord's kingdom. The shadow side of that was I was not really focused on the people around me. I had an agenda to achieve whatever this place is. And it's that unattainable place. You don't even know what it is. To be accepted, to be um, to be hitting all these concerts, the loan that we had taken out, making sure like we gotta lock in on uh making sure we're paying this back, but also not lose the spirit of why we're doing this in the first place. Right. And after a while, you don't realize it, but I had just kind of turned into a machine of getting this stuff done, almost like such a leader, if we want to use that word, that it, you know, if I had you coming over to the house, it wasn't like to just do a little game night and chill. It was to have you come over because we got to make sure we're staying on point on what we're trying to accomplish. And so I set all that up to say that it's now 2005, 2000. We we we had begun to really around 2004 and a half. We had decided we're going to, we always had the five-year plan. You and summer. Me and summer. Yeah, me and my wife. Thank you for your clarity. We had the um, we had the the five-year plan, I should say we're gonna have kids. And around four and a half years into it, we realized, hey, it's time. We felt that release of yeah, I can't wait. I remember seeing kids thinking, I'm gonna be one day I'm gonna be a dad. And we would try to get pregnant, and it just didn't happen like we thought it would happen. Matter of fact, we went a while and there were just no no pregnancy, nothing like that. Really, really uh tough place to be in because we just felt the disappointment every month that would pass. And so if you fast forward some time, it was it was 2006, around October, late September, early October. Uh somebody told me that she was pregnant. And I just remember being ecstatic. Couldn't believe it. Yeah. Everything we had prayed for. Keep in mind everything else I set up before, we're still driving, we're doing our thing. But there's still this side of softening where we're praying for a child, and I can't believe it. We're at Cracker Barrel. I can still remember being at Cracker Barrel and we're talking, and I'm like, I can't believe I'm gonna be a dad. I remember going to my insurance company that I worked at thinking, oh my gosh, I'm gonna be a dad. You men, you've been in this position. Ladies, before you had children and now you have them, you understand what I'm talking about. So December, we're just out enjoying the Christmas festivities, and summer begins to feel this pain in her stomach, and she's like, you know, something's going on. We weren't trying not to be concerned. We called the nurse. She said, Hey, I'm I'm sure everything's okay, but why don't you come in tomorrow to the doctor's office? And we did, and we went there and found out that they couldn't find a heartbeat. We had lost the baby. And this is just before Christmas, December 2006. And I remember, you know, Summer was so gracious in that time because I'm really wanting to be there for her. But I'm also scheduled to play for a Highlands Christmas at that time, and it was it was really powerful service. And Summer even said, Why don't you still go to rehearsal? And back then it was like we did yeah, maybe three services. Very scalable, you know, according to what we were going through at that time. And she said, and go play the services, this will be good for you. And I felt the release. I knew it was okay. I remember going there and it was amazing. Like it was it was amazing to be with my friends. Uh, we would sing a worship song in the midst of the Christmas carols. And I I mean I remember it being very, very powerful. So I'm grateful for that experience. I also remember coming back home and seeing some of the presents wrapped for the baby. And I could tell summer had been grieving, which is very, very uh understanding. And Christmas comes and goes. And it's the time of the year where I mean it's getting dark at like 2 p.m., you know, in the afternoon. It's drizzly, and we're just really sad, man. Very, very sad. And me and Summer, we've been best friends like ever since we've known each other. So we're very tight. 25 years of marriage. I mean, she is my best friend. Like we're as close as it gets. So even in these crisis moments, it's drawn us together, and we would have our time together and try to be a comfort to one another, but we would also separate and have our own time with the Lord. And I remember um one night, I don't remember what I was reading, but I'm just in our bedroom, just kind of getting away and trying to seek comfort from the Holy Spirit. And in that moment, I felt the Holy Spirit say, and this is it'll kind of come out of left field, but he but here's what I sensed in my spirit. When's the last time you sat across the table from someone else to hear what they had to say? And it didn't even feel relevant to the moment. Yeah. And I I still pondered on it, thinking, even if it's not from the Lord, I can go ahead and dismiss the thought and prove in my mind how what did that even mean? And as I thought about it, I realized, man, there's um I I I can't I I don't know. I would think about my interaction with people, and I realized, man, I kind of uh I kind of got an agenda with the band that I was with. When I spent time with them, it was always about we got to stay on point. What are we doing? Who can do this? Who can do that? If it was at church, it was, hey, we got to practice this, hey, we got to get this, we got it was very there just wasn't a lot of slowing down. I was all drive. Somehow it became zero relationship in that season, and that's just not who I was. That wasn't even who we were that put us on the very platforms we we've been able to be on. That's been something that the Lord has opened those doors, and it's always been about the people. It's been, if anything, not as much about the ability. It's been these other aspects and dynamics that have brought anything of of meaning into these moments. And I realized, man, I'm in this season of striving like crazy. And I think that it's something that the Lord has been saying at that time for years. I was just so busy, I didn't stop to hear. My antenna in this time of brokenness was finally repaired, where I'm hearing from the Lord like I hadn't. Because in that moment of sadness, all I could think about was, how is summer? How is she doing? How's how's her body? That was a concern for me. Is she okay? The second thing I thought about was, man, I want us, I just want us to be with our friends right now. Like to a game night. Yeah. Be to get to sit by the fire and drink some coffee and just talk about pointless stuff. The last thing that ever hit my mind was to be on any platform to achieve any kind of status, the equivalent of I could have cared less of a corner office. There was nothing in the professional side of mission that I or of acceptance that ever came to my head thinking, man, I wish that I could attain whatever in my mind thought I was trying to attain. Because in that moment, that just became meaningless. Yeah. And it was so real to me in the moment. It was a wake-up call that I needed. That when me and Summer were talking again, I told her, I said, hey, I said, 2007's gonna look a lot different. And and it did. Matter of fact, I was reading, uh, I had I had just got Summer this MacBook and we thought it was so cool. It was a little white MacBook. I remember that. They were like $999. Like plastic. The plastic and the rounded corners and edges. Yeah, that was a and I would get on it at night. Yeah. Um, when Wi-Fi is just like feeling like if you got Wi-Fi, you feel like you've arrived in life. And Summer's sleeping, and I'm looking on Wi-Fi, and I look up um this word I come across, it's infuse. And I love the meaning because it felt like what I was going through. It was a pouring in of something new. And I remember seeing that word thinking, God, this is what I feel like I'm going through right now. There is a newness, there's a rebirth happening in me. It's reminding me of the first time when I encountered the Lord in 1993. And here we are almost 14 years later, and I'm going to this moment of rebirth. And I just I kind of carried that with me. I caught it this infused mindset. And so I began in January just putting some feet to it. And I didn't know what to do, Rhett, but I just Yeah, I remember having conversations with you. I said, I'm gonna I'm just gonna call. I'm just gonna call some of these people that honestly have just kind of breezed by, probably been a jerk too, and not meaning to. Ran past them, haven't given them time. I'm gonna just reach out to some people just to go grab some coffee. No agenda, whether it's the youth pastors that I only called to try to get a booking with, and I really did not ask how you doing, or even some of the team at the church who I needed them to learn their music, or I needed them to get the set list right, or we needed to do this. I just wanted to see how they are doing. Yeah, no agenda. Obviously, for your performance side, that's tough because performance, you know, the the drive is good, but it can also be abused. And so I go to Starbucks, I begin to um reach out to certain people. And I remember three encounters particularly. And on those three encounters, I'm I I I literally I timeline them like an hour, an hour, an hour where I meet with people. And I'm sitting at this same table at Starbucks. It's literally one leaves and the next one's pulling in. And my whole goal was I just want to see how they're doing, which was so different for me because it was tough. I'm sitting there at Starbucks and they're talking about some things, and and I even have the solution for them. I remember wanting to jump in and say, well, man, here's your problem right here. And let me come save the day. I'm used to jumping in and taking, yeah, taking charge. And that same whisper of the Holy Spirit just kind of said, Shh, don't say anything. It's the feeling I would get in my spirit, and I would just stay quiet. But I remember still gripping the tables underneath because I had to let this energy out. And I would scratch those wooden tables would get, yeah, they had to have scratches under them because I had to get the energy out as I'm listening, you know, with a little smile. Yeah. But the common theme, all three events, same thing happened. And I think the Lord allowed this to happen to teach me a continued lesson. And it was after every conversation, um, the person would get up, give me a hug, so we'd embrace, and they would say, Thank you so much for that wisdom. And my response in my mind was I didn't give any wisdom because I wanted to give what I thought was wisdom, and I felt God saying, Don't say anything. So I'm just like, Oh, you're welcome. But I didn't say anything. Well, after about the third time, the same comment kept happening. And it hit me as they walked away. I kind of sat back at the chair to just mentally unwind from those three meetings. Yeah. And I felt the Holy Spirit just whisper just in my heart, see what I can do if you just make yourself available. I'll do more than you could ever dream of doing. The doors that you would try to open, I will open the ones that are supposed to open. That little mind, just that mind shift, that little thought would end up being one of the greatest. It revolutionized life and it revolutionized ministry to me. Because it it allowed me to go back to that first love of falling in love with Jesus and falling in love with his people, loving your neighbor as yourself. They'll know you by the love that you have for one another. All these things were rekindled and began to come back alive. Stuff that is really elementary teachings that is really not, it's not like a revelation, but yet it was a real it was a revelation to my spirit. And it was enough to allow me to walk in this new faith of not faith in Christ, but a new way, I should have said. It allows me to walk into this new way of I'm gonna stop trying to open all these doors where I feel like I am where I am um changing or I'm changing who I am to try to open them. Meaning, yeah, I get it. Meaning, if I'm having a conversation with you and I feel like I have to now jump in with an agenda to say something to almost get something that I'm trying to get out of it, yeah, whether that's okay or not, I just remember I would cut that thought off right away. And it became a moment of I will not drive over anybody like I have done. I'm not going to fall into the trap. Yeah. So there's a balance to all this, obviously, and I'll finish that thought. This is not to say go live your life and don't have drive. This is not to say go live your life and let people walk all over you. That's not what this is at all. This is a reprioritization of what should be our main focuses because I had this revelation that I got caught in this moment of running over people in the name of Jesus. And it and I was blind to it because I thought what I was doing was perfectly fine. And when that when God in his grace revealed that, hey, there's a different way, and it's actually a more effective way because it's my way, I can't say that it it would happen the way that it did for me for everybody, but I will say God's way is always the best way. Yeah. But for me, I got to see doors open up for ministry that I used to would have dreamed about. That I used to would have tried to beat the door down to try to have them happen. And all I can tell you is there has been no agenda to try to force things open. And what it's done, it's grown my faith in Jesus, it's grown my dependency in the Lord, and it's helped me to be more equipped to hear what Jesus, to hear what God is speaking to you, and not over-pedestaling people in an unhealthy way to what they're saying to you. It put me on a track where I'm no longer looking for the affirmations that I would have kept following if people kept giving me affirmations. You can follow affirmations through the wrong path all day long if you're not locked in on what the Lord's doing in your life. And so that was such a revelation to me that I knew before we end this podcast, I wanted to slow down and I wanted to tell that little bit of a story of a what seemed like a just it's very significant to me, but it seemed like a simple little story at that time. And though my story continues to grow and God gives new things, that has been so pivotal that I can instantly recall this. And I want to make sure that my family, yeah, my boys, my friends, my friends' children who would ever come back and listen to this, at least has that voice to speak into their ear that says it's not about you. And at the moment that we think it is about accomplishing our best and trying to live our best life, this is at least a moment to just pause and say, Is what I'm doing, Lord, is what I'm doing exactly what you're wanting me to do? And my Psalm 139, it like expose my motives. Like see if there's any wicked way in me. It's it's it was a moment for me to stop and actually look at the things that I was doing. And hopefully, before I don't know if I had the humility, there may have been a bit of arrogance, and I didn't realize it was. I was blind to it. Through that tragedy of a miscarriage, God uses all things for the good. And through that tragedy, it allowed this brokenness to come out of me that I hadn't felt in a while to humble myself finally to a way that I was hearing what God was actually saying. And it changed everything about the way that I conducted life after that. And so my message, you know, or my takeaway for uh the people who would listen is to continually give those moments in your life where even if you feel like you're just on the right track, praise God, go for it. But to have those moments where you stop and reassess the path that you're on. And the verse that has kind of become a theme verse for me uh with this is from Philippians 2, 3. And this has become just something that I go by in so many ways. It says, do nothing out of selfish ambition or vain conceit. Rather, in humility, value others above yourselves, not looking to your own interest, but each of you to the interest of the others.

Rhett: 56:10

Hey, friends, Red here. Just want to take a moment to speak to those who may be joining us for the first time. We want to say welcome, friends. However, you found us, we are so glad that you did, and we believe it wasn't by accident. We're so glad that you joined us in on this conversation today. In fact, if you haven't already done so, could we encourage you to follow us on social media? You can find us on Facebook or Instagram at ArmchairAuthentic or over on X at ArmchairOff. That's ArmchairOff A-U-T-H P-O-D. All right. Thanks for taking the time to do that. Now let's get back to our conversation.

Justin: 56:52

That's a powerful verse to me because God can take your focus, your other's focus mindset, focus on God, focus on taking care of those who are around you and stewarding them well. And he will take anything that you're actually doing. It's almost like you seek ye first the kingdom of God, all these other things will get added. I have lived the past, what is that, 17? Oh God, God, December of 06, 7. We're we're coming up on maybe 18, 19 years. And me and Summer will laugh at times when we see how God has advanced certain things in our life, the favor that He has put on our life, because we recall December of 06 and how we have not tried to engineer some way to create an agenda to even the word weasel our way into something to create a better outlook for ourselves. Not always perfect. So I'm always careful saying this because it sounds weird when you're talking about yourself, but we have made it our aspiration. Jesus is our focus, yeah, but others, others are our focus. And I will stop trying to accomplish something if I feel like I'm doing it at the expense of someone else getting knocked down. Yeah, and I've been around enough to know that feels very countercultural, and it does to the point that it's even required a lot of tension in my spirit because physically I could go do some things. Yeah. And that drive kicks in that's like, man, I could go do this. And I know when I feel this holdup, I've never regretted looking back because I've not taken someone else and put them back. The moments that I have, which is why we got to constantly um want Psalm 139 and ask the Holy Spirit to to expose our motives, the moments that I have instantly regretted it. Yeah. Even if it has propped me up into a position that I thought I wanted, there's a sense of regret, and usually it's not what you thought it was gonna be. And there's a sense of accomplishment, but was it the right target that we're supposed to be aiming at? And so, if anything, yeah, from today, uh, this big rock in my life has been living an others focused life. Wow.

Rhett: 59:25

Well, man, that was so eloquently said as the incredible storyteller you are as a friend. I've seen this, I've witnessed it. This is one of the reasons selfishly I'm a better man, is because God has allowed me the opportunity to have you as a friend in my life. I'm so grateful. Um, thank you for taking the time to share that. There was I had a like grip underneath the table to just sit there and listen because I'm like, oh, there's so many questions I want to ask that uh I've never really asked you. But then also the Holy Spirit was kind of imparting into me through hearing your. Story, um, just some you know, just wisdom. Um, and so what I what what I'm hearing and what I what I believe people are hearing is it's amazing to me that the more you've laid your life down, your agenda down, the more God has lifted you up and paired it to something better that was really God's agenda for your life. Yeah. Now you had mentioned the miscarriage, and I know due to time, we don't have you know a lot of time to dive into this, but I think it's interesting to me that the pain that God did not cause, right? Um, but he obviously allowed, right? Which there's a lot of there's a lot of struggle of like, why does that even happen? That's a whole nother discussion, right? Um, but because of that pain, I wrote it down this way, it created an opportunity for you and some are both to make a choice.

Justin: 1:01:01

Yeah.

Rhett: 1:01:02

And what I'm hearing from your story is because of that pain, with that opportunity, you made a choice. I know together you both made a choice, but that choice was to reframe your perspective on what God's purpose was for your life. Where before, it seems from hearing your story, this is what I heard, was that the purpose was for God, but it was like people were more of a means to an end of what you saw God accomplishing through you for that. Yeah, to more of a reframe perspective that your purpose was not about you, it was really about others. Yeah. And the choices you began to make to lay down your own agenda for what you thought was best for other people through what God was giving you in those moments of wisdom sitting across the table, let me speak to you, was more of less listening to understand and to be available and to really have the heart of really what's best for that person on the other end, and how can I serve them through Philippians?

Justin: 1:02:04

Yeah.

Rhett: 1:02:05

Laying my life down in service, yeah, you know, not as a doormat, but as a just as a vessel to hear, to understand, then to have a better perspective of how to help. And then obviously infuse was born.

Justin: 1:02:20

Yeah, that's right.

Rhett: 1:02:21

Which is I'm seeing people through a different lens now, not for what they can accomplish from me, but how can I help them accomplish what God wants to do in and through them, even if that means that I'm laying my own platform down. And I think it's amazing to me that you guys made that choice. And so my question, many questions, practically speaking, if you were to, you know, all of us like, give me the three things, you know, whatever, but like if you were to, if you were to give, you know, my son Max, God forbid he ever had to go through that, you know, the choice that you made, you still had to make the choice. How did you make the choice to reframe, right? Where where did that come from? What led you to make that choice? Yeah, how did you get through that type of pain? What were the ingredients? Just one thing to hear it now and go, man, all right, great. You do, but like if you go back to that point of pain, what were give me, give me some just very practical ingredients that we can go, oh, okay. Those that's the the secret sauce, if you will, that allowed you and some or both to keep taking one step at a time with a day that you had in the moments you had together to walk through that paint to to lead you to where you are now.

Justin: 1:03:37

Yeah. And man, I mean, yeah, I know we just don't have the time to get full into that. But the quick way, you know, that I would say that is with what I know now, yeah, it's so much easier to tell the story because it's almost it's easier, but it's tougher too, because I tell the story on the other end of all this what you would call success that's happened. Yeah. Because I've gotten to see the the place that I'm involved with at Highlands, I've gotten to see a direct result of the process that came out of that. Right. And what it became to allow the expansion of what has become a very, very big church that is ministering to so many. Yeah. And so I've gotten to see that now and it blows my mind. But in the moment, you don't see any of that. So, with me, all I'm doing in the moment is I'm looking at it in a way of just being obedient. I'm not thinking that there's anything I'm gonna get out of it. Once again, that's the tough thing about telling the story. Yeah, I don't feel like there's anything when I made that decision that I'm going to get out of it that I'm living in now, which has been amazing. But yeah, it was just sheer obedience because it was my relationship with Christ first. Like I'm just so deeply in love with him. My marriage to Summer, I mean, she I tell her everything. We're so close. And so that's what a, I mean, that's what we were agreeing to. We were agreeing to say this is a new way of living. Yeah. That that we've got to make sure we don't forget. But it was a lot of us talking through that. It was a lot of putting feet to I'm just gonna schedule all I did, kind of my little three points, it's not three points, but an example is I didn't have anybody saying, now here's what you want to do. My thought was, well, if I haven't sat across the table from someone to hear what they have to say, yeah, I guess I need to schedule some time to sit across the table. I mean, I took it at the most elementary place. Yeah. I mean, to this day, like I just before I came here, I sat across the table from someone to hear what they had to say. It's become part of what my ministry is. And all I will say is it's to engage in for me, it's just it's staying locked in and obedient to Christ because his ways are not our ways. And just because you obey doesn't mean you're gonna get this Americanized success. You can, and that's great. I was ready to be obedient if it meant looking like a fool. And if it meant losing what my drive was giving me, I was ready to lay it down. I was ready to build even a deeper relationship with Summer than we already had. Yeah. And I knew that was going to be good. Yeah. I was ready to build a deeper relationship with you than before that. I was really ready to do. Because there were years that I knew that I was not as vulnerable with people that I was close to. Because in that performative side, in that driven side, I was the one in the in the groups who kind of had to know everything, at least in my mind. No one said that. In my mind, I had to be the one who knew everything. Which meant when I'm one-on-one with somebody, there wasn't a lot of vulnerability that existed. Yeah. But that changed because now I'm sitting down listening, and then through the listening, it became this um reciprocating factor where now I'm talking and they're listening. And it brought out this vulnerability in me. So what became rich wasn't the musical accomplishments or the ministry accomplishments. My relationship with Christ and my relationship with people became rich. I started walking in rich relationships in a fresh way. Yeah. And that ended up growing me. That ended up the same people that I would have had over for the mission. Yeah. Once again, none of that's bad. Right. It became game nights. Yeah. It became dinners. Yeah. It became walking around like, man, what's in your heart? What you doing? There was an approach ability to talk in different ways than we talked before. And that to me, in those days, that felt like a win because we were experiencing before that almost a sense of neediness. Yeah. When you need affirmation or you want to be wanted, or you're not doing it the way that you think the person's wanting you to do it, and you just get needy and you sometimes lose yourself. Well, in this surrender moment, I feel like I'm not even paying attention. I could care less if I get any of that anymore. Yeah. It's like I died to myself in certain ways on that moment. Yeah. But what I cared about and what I was enjoying was this new sense of deep, rich relationships. And that was that was forming me spiritually in ways I had never experienced. So I was becoming deeper with the Lord by doing less of the performative stuff and more engaging with the spirit and the soul of people.

Rhett: 1:09:13

Yeah, the what I'm hearing is a secret sauce is relationship with God, humility with God, relationship with your wife if you're married. Yeah. Humility with your wife, vulnerability, talking, communication, open dialogue, right? Yeah. Humility in the church, not about me. It's my not my will, but your will. How can I align with that even more? That's good. Humility with relationships, with friendships, not my agenda, God's agenda. How can I sit and listen, hear, understand, and serve the dream, the calling in your life, not mine. But through that humility, those relationships in that order, in that type of humility, in that type of approach, and making those daily decisions, it's allowed you to experience a whole nother level of fulfillment than trying to drive in a way that what you thought was more toward platforming you and whatever that agenda might have been, right? Either knowingly or unknowingly. Am I getting that right? Am I hearing this perspective right?

Justin: 1:10:23

Yeah, and because what happens then is God still gives you a drive and He didn't mean for you to get rid of it forever. Right. I had to go through a season of almost sacrificing that to show that it's still God and not my doing. But the shadow began to diminish. And what became through the humility of it was before I saw myself platformed in the name of Jesus. The change was I became less platformed, but yet to do the work that I felt I was supposed to be doing, where I'm giving my part as the body of Christ, I noticed, and it would create consistent conflict that I would still battle for years after that. Yeah. I would sense his delight and his favor in the areas that weren't the platform ones. And he didn't breathe as much on what would have been my move to go platform myself. Yeah. And so there was constant dying to myself being platformed, which I always thought I would be the platform one. Yeah. But there was a constant dying of that, and I could not ignore his supernatural work that he was used, deciding to use me as a vessel to do his supernatural work in some of the hidden areas that no one saw. And so once again, through his just sovereign way, I can't explain it. Yeah, there are moments that I've been platformed and it's great. But what happened is through that dying process, I just don't care about that platform anymore.

Rhett: 1:11:58

Death, Jesus, death, burial, resurrection is the picture that I have in my mind. Yeah, it's good. The more we die, the more we come alive.

Justin: 1:12:07

And it's more and you and you feel more alive and you feel more meaningful in the work that you do. And it will not look necessarily like what you thought it was gonna be. Yeah. And right now we're saying this in 2025, and I also recognize God's so sovereign. Everything that that I'm doing that you're doing now is leading up to something else that we're gonna look back on and say, Oh, as I surrendered, God, yeah, yeah, you created more meaning to come. Yeah. Wow. Yeah. And so that once again, that I appreciate your clarifying questions.

Rhett: 1:12:45

Well, and that's for me and for, you know, maybe those who are listening, that you know, God's filtering different things with the Spirit is leading and taking that and applying that. But, you know, just selfishly, I'm thinking, man, like, you know, I want to just dial in on just some of those rocks and go, these are this is what I'm hearing. Am I hearing it right? And because it's amazing to me just how God turned your pain that point into purpose beyond what anybody could ever imagine, where the enemy was trying to take you out, you know, and your family out and get you so distracted and and and and leaned into, oh, just be better and stay in this. But no, it's like, no, I turned it toward others, yeah, and that purpose and how it's gone, you know, produce fruit a hundredfold, yeah, if you will, with the ministry and what you guys have accomplished.

Justin: 1:13:28

Well, and I am grateful, Rhett, that our story, and not everybody's story is this way. Yeah, but if you've been listening to the podcast, you know, you know this. If you're new, um, we did end up having four boys. Praise the Lord. I mean, I'm so grateful. Yeah, but part of our story, and these are other big rocks to tackle later, that wouldn't be our only miscarriage. And each one served a purpose that it was it was wild how God used it. Yeah, but our story was four miscarriages and a stillbirth. Matter of fact, it's wild that I just said that to you now, yeah, especially because we're ending because we do need to end. But today, yeah, like today is the date that we lost our daughter in a stillbirth. It's the it's you know, back in 2015. And so she would be 10 years old. And we walk through that process and we grieve that every year. Yeah. That's something that we will never be the same after you guys who are hearing this. If you've been through this, you're just never the same. But I also know, yeah, as much as I don't want it, I can't deny how close I feel to the Lord after going through these tragedies. And I've seen his resurrection power in all of these things. And so I I know we have heaven one day. I will not take, I would not take anything back because it's allowed Jesus to receive the glory. But I also know that you're listening and you could be in the middle of maybe you haven't been able to have children and you've longed for it. I cannot imagine what that would have been like not to be able to have our four boys. Yeah. But I do know that Jesus, he will take the pain, as you said, and he will turn purpose into it. And what we're doing right now, we have the honor of serving the creator of the universe. And this little time that we have is just but a vapor. Yeah. And if we can lock in in this vapor, we've got eternity of being with Christ and being whole and not having regret or sadness, no tears, no pain. Yeah. But what do we do in the blip? What do we do with the vapor that we've been given? And the story right now is just one of those big rocks that has been a major story of our life. And my prayer is that it continues to move forward and bringing glory to Jesus. And that if your ears have heard this today, that maybe where you are in your journey, that it would just be a brother here, just giving you some extra encouragement to say you're not alone. God has a story that He's doing in you. And no matter what you've come up against to feel like you've hit the end or you are deeply saddened, you're experiencing a dark night of the soul, is to say that the sun will rise and you will experience a continuing opportunity to bring glory to Jesus, which is the greatest honor any of us could ever have.

Rhett: 1:16:46

Hey, friends, thank you so much for joining us on today's conversation. We're really looking forward to next week's. But until then, we hope you have a great week. Stay safe. We wish God's blessing on all of you. And we look forward to seeing you right here next Monday on Armchair Authentic.